‘Children of the Kindertransport’.

London
‘Children of the Kindertransport’ statue based outside Liverpool Street Train Station, London. The memorial remembers those Jewish refugees who survived the journey on the Kindertransport and made it to Britain as the country opened its doors and offered them a home before WWII – saving the lives of more than 10,000 children. Sir Nicholas Winton unveiled the plaque expressing gratitude to the people of the United Kingdom who helped protect them from Nazi persecution in Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia.

Advertisements

A very Fond Belated Farewell to Sr. Pauline Gaughan (DC) R.I.P.. Winter 2007

Just out of the blue I received a very complimentary e-mail two days ago from one Susan W. of Manchester, England. It was in response to a comment I made about Sr. Pauline Gaughan that she’d seen at butterfliesandwheels.org. dated Oct 24th, 2009. The comment in question concerned itself with the fallout from an article with which  had linked and talked about on that specific day in one of her daily posts.
I responded to a direct quote from the article at B&W:
Marie-Thérèse O’ Loughlin

“When he calms down, even Stephen Fry knows the church does good – why else would he be hosting a fundraising event next month for the Passage, a day centre for the homeless, founded by Cardinal Hume, supported by Westminster Cathedral, inspired by the life of Christ”

Cardinal Hume might have started Passage -but all the hard work was mostly done by the Daughters of Charity of St Vincent De Paul – who opened up their convent in Carlisle Place, Victoria.

Pauline Gaughan, whom I knew in London, gave up her teaching job to organise behind the scenes ‘Passage’ work with the homeless. She went further afield to Manchester and Liverpool and did more marvellous work with the homeless, marginalised and human rights and justice issues.

With the result of reading this article I googled ‘Passage’. I was stunned to learn that Sr. Ellen Flynn was up ’til recently chairperson of this homeless organisation.

As Sr. Ellen Flynn was the most kindest religious person I ever encountered in my whole young life. She also brought guitar and folk music into my young life and protected me from being kicked out of the girls’ hostel in London. Sr. Anne, who was in charge, could not abide me and wanted rid of me because of some small misdemeanour.

I was stunned to learn that Sister Pauline suddenly died.

I am tempted to e-mail Sr. Ellen. I have had no contact with her for over thirty five years. I have never ever forgotten her kindness.

It subsequently stirred up in me a huge longing to post long overdue personal expressions etc., regarding sudden sad departure of Sr. Pauline (Daughter of Charity of St. Vincent De Paul) R.I.P..

See: Obit Daily Telegraph Winter Sept 2007.

Sister Pauline. September 2nd, suddenly aged 71 years. Will be sadly missed by her sisters Margaret and Kate, her nieces and nephews and all of her many friends. Sister Pauline was a much loved member of The Daughters Of Charity at Cathedral Precinct and will be dearly deeply missed by everybody at the Cathedral. Funeral Mass at Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral on Monday 10th September at 12.15 p.m., to be followed by interment at Yewtree Cemetery. On Sunday evening prior to her funeral Sister Pauline will be resting at her convent. Family flowers only please, but donations if desired to Seel Street Communities Work for the Homeless.—c/o Craven’s Donations Account. Enquiries to Craven’s Funeral Service 0151 228 3900
The following information I have collated from various Internet sources will give readers a bird’s eye view into the background of a very dedicated and very spiritual ex-teacher, who suddenly passed away in the winter of 2007 at the age of 71.
I knew her for years whilst residing in London during the seventies and early eighties. (She was in fact the catalyst for me finding my mother for the very first time. However, that is another story for another day) I was devastated upon reading about her passing on the Internet. It actually came about quite accidentally when I’d been commenting at butterfliesandwheels.org on a 2009 post about the Passage. I instantaneously reminisced about life in Victoria, London. My curiosity got the better of me and as one can see… it was not good news.
I was going to just post synopsis/link to following tale but decided instead to paste it in its entirety, as it is so very poignant and sums up perfectly the character of Sr. Pauline.
His name was Bert. Her name was Pauline. He was a regular at the Passage Day Centre near Victoria Station in London. She was a Daughter of Charity of St Vincent de Paul and worked there. Bert did his best, but the drink often got the better of him and many’s the night he slept in Bridge Road. Pauline kept an eye out for him and made sure he had a good breakfast when he turned up at the Passage. Pauline knew that Bert had a family and phoned them every other week to keep in touch. She knew that he had a brother who ran a fruit stall in one of the South London markets. The months and years went by – the warm evenings of summer, the freezing nights of January. Bert got into a hostel and then was barred for violent drunken behaviour. He could be a very nasty foul mouthed person when the Bucky wine had done its work. But there was always the Passage for a bit of grub, a shower and a change of clothing. There was always Pauline to talk to and share his sorrows, his regrets and his frustration. There was always Pauline. One particular Monday morning in January Bert did not turn up at the Passage. On Tuesday there was still no sign of him. By Wednesday Pauline was worried. She asked his pals from the street and one of them – George – said that he had seen Bert on Saturday evening drinking in an alleyway just off the Strand. Pauline made enquiries with the Police and eventually she discovered that Bert had been found on Sunday evening behind a large upturned rubbish bin at Savoy Place. Bert was dead – he was frozen – he was mingled with the refuse from that part of our great, thrusting metropolis.The authorities wanted to have the funeral of this poor unfortunate pauper sorted out as soon as possible, Pauline pleaded to be given time to make some other enquiries. She knew Bert’s brother had a market stall…but where exactly? She set off and visited Balham and Brixton and Bermondsey. She had her A-Z book of London. She got to Deptford and New Cross, Charlton and Camberwell. She even went out to Bexley. The authorities were getting tetchy – Bert’s body was taking up space in the morgue. Eventually after four weeks she arrived at Tooting market. “Does anyone know Bert Harris?” – she asked the same question over and over again. And then she found him. Nigel Harris was delighted and sad. Sad because someone he loved had died but delighted to know that his brother’s body was awaiting a funeral. He cried and he laughed and he thanked Pauline for finding him. He knew something was wrong when he had no phone call from Bert for almost five weeks. A week later Bert’s funeral took place at Westminster Cathedral. Nigel hired a double decker bus and all Bert’s pals from the streets went out to Streatham cemetery for the burial. He was laid to rest beside his mother and father. Afterwards they all had a lovely meal in a nearby hotel. This all happened many, many years ago. Last September Pauline – Sr Pauline Gaughan – died very suddenly in hospital. She went home to heaven. I’m sure one of the first people to greet her was Bert Harris. H/t: Father Fergus Kelly. CM. Issue: 25 Vincentian Concern Winter 2007. Spirituality.
Sr. Pauline helped many other men in similar circumstances to Bert. They included Irish and Scottish men who had lost touch with their families. The men had the height of respect for her, despite the incapacity to have respect for themselves on a physical level. I used to feel haunted by the neglect that they put themselves through and radiant at the way this sister of charity was able to reach out to them on a spiritual level. There was always an open door and a cup of tea for them at cornerstone as well as at the Passage which was only then starting up during my time of living in the nearby area of Francis St.
My name is Pauline Gaughan. I am a Daughter of Charity. I am the Director of a programme called the Vincentian Volunteers. This programme gives young people (18 to 30 approx.) the opportunity of a meaningful one year volunteering experience in a Christian context.  Read the rest…

 Vincentian Millennium Partnership Chair’s Introduction:

I am delighted to be writing this introduction to the Vincentian Millennium Partnership’s Annual Report for 2007 to 2.008.  …[W]e also have a small but incredibly important group of supporters, both individuals and Trusts, who help us to achieve our goals of promoting Vincentian Spirituality, tackling poverty and fighting injustice. We were very sorry to lose Sr Pauline Gaughan DC from our number during the year. Her sudden death robbed the Vincentian Millennium Volunteers of an excellent Director and the Partnership of a faithful and committed trustee. May she rest in peace. We were delighted to welcome her replacement, Sr Barbara Quilty DC to the Board and also Sr Ellen Flynn, representing the Partnership’s newest member, The Passage. l hope that you will enjoy reading this report and that its contents will inspire you to work even harder for the poor and make the Partnership even stronger and more fruitful by playing your part in its work.

It’s ironic that one of her replacements – Sr. Ellen Flynn DC – so happened to have been the very first person in my young life, to have opened up a world of folk music when she was at St. Louise’s Hostel. She was also a teacher and one of the kindest nuns I’ve ever encountered in my whole life. What a singing voice she had indeed, Sr. Pauline, in comparison, was a very mediocre guitarist/singer. They were also both very good songwriters. I also dabbled at songwriting and nearly got two of my songs published. Sr. Ellen helped me to tidy up the music-score of one complicated one I wrote on a beach when I was a teenager.
…a sad loss

…I first met Sr Pauline during the SVP National Meeting in 1982
where she was one of the speakers. I offered a number of the
Daughters from the Manchester area a lift home. The others
declined because they were going to visit Downside, but
Sr Pauline accepted because she wanted to be in time for the
funeral the next day of “one of her old men” from the Mary &
Joseph home, in George Leigh Street.
I learned so much from her and she put me right, in the most
friendly and constructive way, about details.
…If I ever reach heaven I’ll certainly look for Sr Pauline, Blessed
Rosalie and Blessed Frederic and, at that time none of us will
need a white stick! May she rest in peace.
Dr. Austin Fagin. Issue: 25 Vincentian Concern Winter 2007. Spirituality. H/t:  Father Fergus Kelly. CM.
In the e-mail, Susan wanted to know if I was the same person whom she had known in London in the late seventies and early eighties. I haven’t got around to telling her that I am indeed. I remember Susan distinctly and can still see her tall figure and neatly cut short brown hair in my minds eye at the meetings at Cornerstone. I have a lot to catch up on with respect of Sr. Pauline Gaughan, who was a very singleminded person; who saw fit to walk 68 miles in one weekend from Canterbury to London. I know this – because I too walked the same famous Canterbury to London Pilgrims Progress route in aid of Crisis at Christmas. The walk officially was supposed to have been 60 miles, but in essence it was 68… which would have been against the rules over one given weekend. She slept in a sleeping bag on a hard floor in a used church along with the rest of us. We were so proud of our massive well earned round badges that depicted a big 60 that were sown on the sleeves of our dark blue duffel coats in the aftermath of the gruelling walk.
Despite Sr. Pauline having such a gracious demeanour, she was so down to earth and never looked down on poor wretched people. She undoubtedly is very much missed by those of whom she very much cared about, namely, the marginalised and cast-outs of society.
“The Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in a field…”   (Matthew 13-14)
And…
“How happy are the pure in heart, they shall see God’
are words from psalms that I recall off-hand that she used in one of her own songs.

Orlando: …Not unlike dart-throwing chimpanzees

 Orlando

H/t: Ophelia Benson @ butterfliesandwheels Freethought syndicated blogs

 January 18, 2012 at 3:13 pm  Ophelia Benson

Oh hey, I’m excited now – Jessica Ahlquist is a speaker at the Moving Secularism Forward conference – which is exciting for Me Me Me because so am I. Yip!

The annual joint conference of CFI and the Council for Secular Humanism takes place March 1–4 at the Hyatt Regency in Orlando, FL and includes presentations from Daniel Dennett, Jamila Bey, PZ Myers, Ophelia Benson, David Silverman, Ronald A. Lindsay, and more.

Jessica Ahlquist croppedNew speaker announced: Jessica Ahlquist! Jessica, ourvolunteer high school coordinator, just won the case against her public high school’s display of a prayer banner. She’s participating in a Saturday morning session on “Outreach and Advocacy Strategies” moderated by campus organizer Debbie Goddard.

It’s fun having teenage heroes. Makes a person feel optimistic.

6 Responses to “Orlando”
  1. Great.

    session on “Outreach and Advocacy Strategies” moderated by campus organizer Debbie Goddard.

    Music to my ears.

  2. Fin says:

    She deserves the world’s largest and most enthusiastic high five, make sure you deliver.

  3. christopher moyer says:

    Just posting to say I love this.

  4. Well Fin I wouldn’t want to knock her down. :- )

  5. Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Will there be any disabled people on the panel? If not, why not?

    Will there any working-class disadvantaged people on the panel. If not, why not?

  6. Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Will there be any disabled people on the panel? If not, why not?

    Will there any working-class disadvantaged people on the panel. If not, why not?

  7. I was wondering if there will be any folk from less advantaged backgrounds and those with disabilities playing an active part in the four day conference?

  8. […] SC (Salty Current), OM says: January 18, 2012 at 3:23 pm […]

    As you can see from the fifth comment it looked as if I was putting the kibosh on what was otherwise seen as a very exciting conversation. It was not my intention to be any kind of kill-joy. I was just thinking of a hero of Ophelia’s of not so long ago, who was one James Smith. A  person seen getting things done – justice-wise for Magdalen Laundry survivors. I too was reminded of Paddy Doyle, who is an ardent devoted activist for wheelchair users. Paddy takes every opportunity to ask various global organisations questions about rampant discrimination of every sort and the Moving Secularism Forward conference  organisers and panellists should also not be afraid to answer questions of this ilk. If Bruce Springsteen is good enough to be challenged by Paddy Doyle on wheelchair users and the way they are treated as second-class citizens – so too, in my opinion, should the line of ‘celebrity’ atheists and their organisers.
    As a person who comes from a very disadvantaged background (not by lineage, but by circumstances arising out of my birth) and the times that were in it, when I grew in Holy Roman Catholic & Apostolic Ireland – I too, would like to have answers. I have been on the periphery of the atheist/sceptic community for a very long time now and since the accommodationist debacle have become very disturbed and disenchanted at what I see going on amongst a lot of those who profess to want to change the mindset of the world. I do not have the skills needed to verbalise thoughts properly (and neither do the majority of those who grew up in industrial *school* settings) but we still had the temerity to stand up and be counted and change the mindset of Ireland. So a lot of atheists, some secularists, sceptics and some philosophers who appear to snub our ilk because we appear semi-illiterate to them — in all probability because of our lack of education, are wrong to do so to vulnerable people.
    It seems too that the experts don’t have all the answers, not according to an article written by Charlie Fell anyway, where he addresses some very interesting questions by Philip Tetlock, in the Irish Times on the 6th January 2012.
  9.  Forecasters not unlike dart-throwing chimpanzees.
  10. ….[T]etlock’s authoritative study spanned more than a decade and encompassed 284 experts “giving 27,450 judgments of the future”.

    He concluded that the experts would have been beaten by “a dart-throwing chimpanzee”.

    The bottom line is that professionals in all walks of life – and not just the investment world – have an inflated view of their abilities.

    Of course, this is to be expected: after all, should an individual actually think otherwise, one could reasonably ask such a person why they would even consider continuing to practise in their chosen field of expertise.

    However, high levels of overconfidence have been shown to be dangerous, where “the more famous the expert, the worse he did”.

    So-called experts typically suffer from the illusion of knowledge – the more facts that an expert has available to them, the more information they have to enlist to support their opinions.

    Further, experts usually place too much emphasis on information that supports their opinions and downplay the facts that support an altogether different conclusion.

    As the political scientist Harold Laski observed in 1930, “Expertise . . . breeds an inability to accept new views.”

    The case against expert opinion is overwhelming but, as Scott Armstrong, an expert on forecasting notes:

    “No matter how much evidence exists that seers do not exist, suckers will pay for the existence of seers.”

    Investors would do well to remember that sell-side predictions can damage your financial health.

    H/t Gay Byrne of the Late Late Show.

  11. debbiegoddard says: January 18, 2012 at 9:31 pm

  12. “Diversity in the movement is a concern of mine. Can I ask: what do you consider a less advantaged background”

    I consider people like me to be of a gargantuan diversity, who grew up in adverse circumstances and who received no education, or very little, and who went out into the world at a far younger age than Jessica and had to fight tooth and nail to exist alone, because of lack of writing/verbal skills along with everything else that emanated from living alone without parents. We are still classed as a diverse group by most sceptics, most atheists and most secularists and religious alike, because we do not have the skills required to air our views properly. We are absolutely shunned by them.

  13. I also consider people like Paddy Doyle of God Squad to be part of a diverse group. He is a wheelchair user activist and he certainly will not sit back and let organisations who only pay lip service to people with disabilities. He also grew up in adverse circumstances. He forever challenges the religious, but the atheist community just basically turn a blind eye to him and people like him, because of reasons that I find indecipherable. For example they never support his blog. They couldn’t be bothered to communicate with our kind for love or money. We are past our sell-by-date and not cute enough for people to feel enthusiastic enough.

  14. We live in a country that has a huge young population, so we thoroughly embrace young people like Jessica and hope that she does not go down the path of jeering those who have literacy problems, which is something that some from the sceptic community, who should know better, are prone to so doing. Shunning those from disadvantaged backgrounds should not be on the online or conference agendas of professionals (most especially those who teach young people and who should know better) or anyone professing to wanting answers to the complexities of the same world that we all inhabit.

  15.  Always remember that when you point the finger at those whom you deem to be from the lowest dominant order on Maslow’s list, that there are always three fingers pointing back at you. Nobody in this world is better than the next person. The matter in ones head might be smaller, but there are big goods in little parcels.

What god/Betsy giveth he/she can so take back in a matter of minutes, days or years. Nobody is immune from becoming ‘deranged’. Like a thief in the night she can darken any door. So be warned all you who use that decrepit word in your vocabulary to metaphorically beat up on those whom you feel are beneath you intellectually. (Irrespective of their not-too-thought-out ways of dealing with bullying). Your intellect comes from the matter in your head, and is very very fragile indeed. So don’t use it to play around with because of your grand notions of superiority. Or what appears to be the case from where I’m standing.

  1. Sorry for all the pingbacks. I really don’t know how they got there. There is obviously a glitch in the system.

    9 Responses to “Orlando”

    1. Great.

      session on “Outreach and Advocacy Strategies” moderated by campus organizer Debbie Goddard.

      Music to my ears.

    2. Fin says:

      She deserves the world’s largest and most enthusiastic high five, make sure you deliver.

    3. christopher moyer says:

      Just posting to say I love this.

    4. Well Fin I wouldn’t want to knock her down. :- )

    5. I was wondering if there will be any folk from less advantaged backgrounds and those with disabilies playing an active part in the day’s conference?

    6. […] SC (Salty Current), OM says: January 18, 2012 at 3:23 pm […]

    7. […] SC (Salty Current), OM says: January 18, 2012 at 3:23 pm […]

    8. debbiegoddard says:

      #6 Marie-Therese: If we’re working from the same definitions, then yes! By the way, it’s a full four-day conference. Many of the speakers are listed onhttp://orlandocon.secularhumanism.org/, but they’ll be making live a complete list in the next day or two.

      Diversity in the movement is a concern of mine. Can I ask: what do you consider a less advantaged background?

    9. Mo says:

      debbiegoddard says: January 18, 2012 at 9:31 pm

      “Diversity in the movement is a concern of mine. Can I ask: what do you consider a less advantaged background”

      I consider people like me to be a gargantuan diversity, who grew up in adverse circumstances and who received no education, or very little and who went out into the world at a far younger age than Jessica and had to fight tooth and nail to exist alone, because of lack of writing/verbal skills along with everything else that emanated from living alone without parents. We are still classed as a diverse group by most sceptics, most atheists and most secularists and religious alike, because we do not have the skills required to air our views properly. We are absolutely shunned by them.

      I also consider people like Paddy Doyle of God Squad to be part of a diverse group. He is a wheelchair user activist and he certainly will not sit back and let organisations who only pay lip service to people with disabilities. He also grew up in adverse circumstances. He forever challenges the religious, but the atheist community just basically turns a blind eye to him and people like him, because of reasons that I find indecipherable. For example they never support his blog. They couldn’t be bothered to communicate with our kind for love or money. We are past our sell-by-date and not cute enough for people to feel enthusiastic enough.

      We live in a country that has a huge young population, so we thoroughly embrace young people like Jessica and hope that she does not go down the path of jeering those who have literacy problems, which is something that some from the sceptic community who should know better are prone to so doing. Shunning those from disadvantaged backgrounds should not be on the online or conference agendas of professionals (most especially those who teach young people and who should know better) or anyone professing to wanting answers to the complexities of the same world that we all inhabit.

Butterflies & Wheels Letters for 2006


  • #1

    G.Tingey.
    Two things:

    First –

    Sigmund Fraud, please!

    I thought that the late lamented Sir Peter Medawar had demolished Freud years ago ……

    Second –

    “Deracinated Western States are supposed to be worse than “Ethnic” nationstates? Or at least, that’s how I’m reading it.

    Is this actually a plea for recism?

    Or is the writer merely 5 years out-of-date.

    Come on, the whole of humanity has 27 mothers, as shown by mitochondrial DNA research, so why we should want ethnically-based (read “Racist” here) nation-states?

    Or has the original writer forgotten to switch his brain to “ON” ??

  • #2

    an open letter to Dr. Laura Schlessinger

    Dear Dr. Laura:

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

    When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

    I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

    A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

    Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

    I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? – Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

    Your devoted fan,

    Jim

  • #3

    Re: Freud the quack.

    Who was it that said that Freud elevated quackery to a whole new level? Phrenology, spiritism, etc have been consigned to the dustbin of history, but you’ll still find smart people praising Freud’s contributions to science, psychology, philosophy or whatever field of human knowledge seems to apply. Yet to adapt General Bosquet’s remark about the Charge of the Light Brigade: Freudian theory may be magnificent, but it ain’t science.

    Bruno

  • #4

    >Who was it that said that Freud elevated quackery to a whole new level?<

    I don’t know. But Vladimir Nabokov delighted in referring to him as the Viennese quack.

  • #5

    Deracination the ideal? The state providing for us irrespective of colour, race or creed? If this is philosophy I’m a Dutchman. For one thing the state that ‘provides’ does so using taxpayers’ money. The state’s existence is, or should be, entirely a matter of public dispensation. Nor, as Max Weber realized, is the state a benign entity. Unchecked it is monolithic and tyrannous. Worse than these stupid, ill-informed opinions, however, is the blithe assumption – resting no doubt on a further uncontested premiss about human equality – that the creation of a ‘rainbow people’ consitutes the loftiest of human social aspirations. When we have finished being lectured on the ‘rights’ of ethnic and racial minorities to maintain their existence (at our expense) perhaps someone could tell me why the same principle doesn’t apply to Whites? White academics write tosh like like this all the time. They never question the desirability of western society losing its identity in the face of relentless mass immigration.

    Baber is dishonest or astonishingly ignorant. He ignores that fact that current racial mixing in western societies is wholly enforced, imposed against the direct wishes of European peoples. Why should they accept as legitimate what they had no say in creating? What is more Whites had better, if they wish to survive, acknowledge the fact of differential race characteristics. In the eighteenth century the preachers of Enlightenment fought long and hard to put man firmly under the governance of natural law. This was the same law that affected all life on this planet. So just as breeds (or ‘species’) of dog or cattle display varying physical or temperamental characteristics so too do the breeds of man. In animals we have even learnt to promote the more prized features through selective breeding. We can do this because we know how genetic differences operate, that differences just as often mean temperamental and even intellectual differences, not just physical ones.

    Nor has it anything to do with background either. How do you think Texas Longhorns learn to behave like Texas Longhorns – by watching Westerns? The races of man are different. Human beings are different. Here is true diversity. If Baber puts his brain to work he will see deracination not as heralding a bright new tomorrow but as sounding the death knell for human creativity.

  • #6

    Where to begin where every “empirical” claim conflicts with my studied observations of the world?

    Man is a tribal creature, and even if we can avoid nationalism or (somehow) ethnicity, we cannot avoid tribes based on shared vocations, avocations, and ideologies. Even the tribe of the deracinated, multicultural “liberal” has its familiar shibboleths. As David Mamet suggests in “The Wicked Son,” the tribe offers real satisfaction and there is nothing romantic or naive about it – the film crew at work is an example he gives. To that, I can attest. And it is a very efficient tribe as well.

  • #7

    Sorry to do this in spurts, but this essay just gets me too angry to sit still and offer a cohesive and comprehensive response, but from one craw to another….

    On the supposed trend toward and desirability of membership in the “north Atlantic elite,” for which Ms. Baber’s paradoxical evidence is her own escape from Northern New Jersey, I would point out that the tribes seem to be winning in the Darwinian sense. And the deracinated have resorted to importing tribesman to replace their dwindling numbers.

    Perhaps the tribes simply want what the deracinated already have without the disconnection that deracination demands.

  • #8

    H. E. Baber writes:

    >It’s the suggestion that the ethnic-based nation-state will remain the aspiration for most human beings “other than deracinated north Atlantic elites” that sticks in my craw. Clearly this is currently the case. But one hopes that eventually it will not be so. At least the line I’m running is that deracination is the ideal for which we should strive so that, ideally, everyone will approximate the idea of this north Atlantic elite.<

    In terms of realistic propositions, I’d put that on a par with an aspiration for a communist society in which there are no fundamental conflicts between different individuals’ goals and aspirations.

    What one should strive for is a moderation of the tribalist propensities of human beings, not an utterly unrealistic goal of the elimination of them. If the world of “deracinated north Atlantic elites” is Baber’s eventual goal, she is doomed to disappointment (should she look down on the earth in some future existence where immortal souls reside), along with the other aspirers to blueprints for human societies. Give me Popper’s trial-and-error mode of societal improvement any day.

  • #9

    Auf Wiedersehen Freud

    “In my eyes, both Adolf Hitler and my grandfather were false prophets of the 20th century.”

    Sophie Freud

    Sophie Freud: Psychoanalysis Not Useful

    There was a time when psychoanalysis was very popular, but today it seems to have more detractors than supporters, especially in the scientific community. As it turns out, even Sigmund Freud’s granddaughter Sophie doesn’t think very highly of it anymore – according to her, his ideas are simply “outdated.”

    Judy Gerstel reports for The Toronto Star:

    [Sophie Freud] dismisses most of her grandfather’s theories as “outdated” and says that another psychiatrist, Irving Goffman, “had a much better grasp on human motivation than Freud.” She also faults her grandfather for “being very angry about any critique and viewing people who criticized him, or thought otherwise, as villains.” Freud and Hitler didn’t just share a neighbourhood in Vienna, she says in the film. “They also shared the ambition to convince other men of the one and only truth that they had come upon.” “Never could he be wrong,” she says. “That lasted for 50 years after his death, until a few people started to dare to say, “Yes, but …” “The bad thing was that psychoanalysis kept itself apart from the scientific advances of time, stuck in a 19th-century way of thinking.” Freud’s status started to take a tumble in the 1960s when authority and established ideas were overturned, in particular those that he represented: institutionalized medicine, psychiatric treatment, patriarchy. “It started with his view of women,” Sophie Freud says, explaining her disillusionment with her grandfather’s thinking. “If you didn’t have a vaginal orgasm, you were not a mature woman, and the clitoris didn’t count. Stuff like that, penis envy, it was amazing. Women believed the great man more than their own bodily experiences.” Not everything about psychoanalysis awful – it did, for example, emphasize the idea of sitting down and listening to what patients had to say. By and large, however, our understanding of the physical processes in the brain have led to a large number of medical treatments which far outstrip psychoanalysis in terms of effectiveness. Just about al of Freud’s theories about the unconscious and mental illness were, quite simply, wrong.

  • #10

    Richard R. Warnotck

    Hitler didn’t want to convince most men that his ideas were true. He wanted to kill them.

  • #11

    Who was Carrie Eicher?

  • #12

    I hesitate to respond to Ovidiu Stoica, as I have no intention of engaging in a bout of responses to an illogical argument – but Ovidiu’s argument implied in his last question is just that.

  • #13

    Paul Gross makes two claims about ID which are false (straw man arguments): one is that ID is anti-evolution, and two is that it is theistic science. ID is about intelligent causes, pure and simple, and we admit in secular science that intelligence may have natural origins – the human mind, case in point.

    The review says that ID is not proven, and that most of the claims are bad science. That leaves some of the claims as being good science, and a weak to strong possibility of ID. Many scientific claims which have not been proven are still taken very seriously, and are often called hypotheses. There will be ways to test for intelligence in sub-cellular life, and there is evidence of intelligence when we observe sub-cellular life. This is the direction ID must take to be serious science: not anti-evolution, and not theistic – simply looking into natural intelligence on levels other than the neural brain. Getting Past the Culture Wars: Regarding Intelligent Design

  • #14

    If, as Glenn Shrom says, the claim that “ID is anti-evolution” is false, then it would not exist for that is the very purpose for which it was designed.

    He also writes : “The review says that ID is not proven, and that most of the claims are bad science. That leaves some of the claims as being good science”. This confuses alternative with opposite. The altenatives to bad science include philosophy, literature, indeed even the subject matters of the sciences themselves, among many other things.

  • #15

    Ravi Shankar, seems to be a member of Congress Party led by Sonia Gandhi. What he want to prove or say?

    I totally disagree with him. The article clearly depicts that the auther is biased againsed RSS, or any other true Hindu…

  • #16

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin.

    Editor,{OB]

    Thank you very much for highlighting a very serious issue which has been gnawing away at me for a very long time indeed.

    As a result I will now be able to look at one of my demons in the eyes and I will be able to repeat, yes! yes!

    I have at long last gotten hold of you and I am going to give you such a good shaking that you will not be able to attempt to frighten/anger me any longer. I will gain control and the truth will set me free.

    Nollaig shona duit

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin.

  • #17

    An all-too-common telling of the tale of the supposedly ‘religious’ lording it over and torturing their charges. The names of all the scum who participated in these child molestations should be writ large so that everyone will know. We have endured a similar story in Canada with the Residential Schools and other so-called ‘holy’ places. The monsters should have all been pilloried, at the very least.

  • #18

    Re: Goldenbridge

    The people who ran and supervised this living hell should be convicted and sentenced to making rosary beads forever

  • #19

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    “The Sisters of Mercy were now bound to the laborious duties of instructing ‘the ignorant’, visiting the sick and imprisoned, managing hospitals, orphanages, industrial schools, and homes for distressed women; in fact to every work of ‘mercy’. They were to make perpetual vows, observe choir, and spend some six or seven hours daily in spiritual exercises and about three weeks altogether in strict retreat; the midsummer retreat proper covering eight full days, a triduum occupying the last three days of each year, and the first Sunday of every month except two being devoted in silence to a preparation for death. On the Octave of the Ascension

    Regarding “retreats” – it does not say that children who were sent to them through the court system should also had to have gone on ‘silent weekend retreats’which was the case.

    In desperately trying to give me encouragement, my solicitor once said; ‘didn’t it get you off the hook from having to make rosary beads!’

    She was so right.

    Slan go foill.

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin.

  • #20

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin.

    Re: Retreats vs Rosary Beads.

    The Retreats may have gotten children off the hook from manufacturing Rosary Beads, but wait for it………

    We inevitably, though got caught on another hook…………as we were obliged, countless times, to say fifteen decades of the rosary as we marched two by two up and down – the otherwise private paddock entrance of the industrial school.

    I found this practice okay, as it got me off the hook from having to remain silent….. which was so difficult

    There was also the added freedom of the open space which was so refreshing from the otherwise hemmed – in prison-type yard, and that too of the stuffy secret rosary bead factory.

    Chidren were given blue threaded plastic rosary beads to pray on.

    There were no such luxuries as pearl beads for us to pray on as we solemnly lifted up our prayers to Our Blessed Mother in Heaven asking her for an easy death.

    Slan go foill,

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin.

  • #21

    I wonder why Marie-Therese and other girls who were imprisoned at Goldenbridge do not sue the Sisters of Mercy for upaid wages, as well as for damages. This would not only bring this to the attention of holy blindness and deafness, and would make it less likely to happen again. It would also bring the tawdry record of religion and education to the forefront at a time when religions are making absurd claims to have some kind of proprietary right to be engaged in the education of children.

  • #22

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    Goldenbridge Industrial School and the Ryan Commission 15,16th March 2006.

    In 1996 – the documentary “Dear Daughter” was broadcast.

    It was claimed that children from Goldenbridge Industrial School were subject to terror and cruelty that destroyed their lives.

    The Sister of Mercy who managed the home at the time, Sr Xaveria Lally, was accused of acts of unspeakable cruelty.

    Among the allegations:-

    Children dressed in rags.

    Babies strapped to potties for so long, their rectums prolapsed.

    Forced to drink water from outdoor toilets

    Forced to work in a “Rosary Beads” factory for hours, until their fingers bled.

    A girl thrown into a furnace for three days.

    Identified by serial numbers – to deprive them of their identities.

    Many more allegations were made each one more horrific than the last.

    While we can’t speak for all of them we can certainly rely on the Ryan Commission to deal with some of the more major ones.

    Goldenbridge – Ryan Commission to inquire into Child Abuse. Tuesday 15th, Wednesday 16th March 2006.

  • #23

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    I was very blessed with having two prison numbers = first one was; 155.

    I was given this number at almost five years of age.

    At nine years of age I was given a new number = it was; 39

  • #24

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin.

    Re: Goldenbridge.

    Senior Counsel, at the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, put it to Sr Helena O’ Donoghue, Provincial Leader of the sisters of Mercy

    Q

    “I take it, that Sr. Bernardine was characterised as a paronoid

    schizophrenic, by Sr Fabian who she considered was grossly insulting to adults and children and who, in effect established a regime of terror”.

    A

    When people “define situations as real, they are real in their consequences conversation,

    I believe that she did mention Sr. Bernardine as being very strict and perhaps some of those terms that you have mentioned. Yes!

    Sister Helena O’ Donoghue’s “smiling mugshot” is plastered all over the Irish Mercy Order website.

    I think it is despicable considering the fact that she is to the forefront with regards her religious congregation

    in all this child abuse debacle.

    I would also consider it inappropriate if Judge Sean Ryan was to be seen by public in the same manner.

    The Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse has not finished its dreary task.

    So can we not be afforded a little bit of respect, or whatever one would like to call it.

    I e-mailed the editor {Geraldine Kennedy} of the Irish Times and also the Irish Independent asking if they would possibily highlight issue.

    Ireland is a small country, and unlike the United Kingdom or the United States of America it does not easily absorb fragilities.

    Industrial Schools abuse is a very sensitive matter and it behoves those with high standing to act with decorum and dignity.

    I do not want to be a kill joy, I just want to be realistic all round.

  • #25

    Re: On Multiculturalism and Religion

    I am arreligious, but I grew up in a religious household. I have lived for 15+ years with tolerant, relatively liberal, very compassionate individuals who would both consider themselves religious–my parents. That said, I have also attended institutions in which the degree of religious intolerance, hypocrisy, and astoundingly ignorant politics led me to reject that breed of religion, as well as leading me to question everything I had previously thought about religion in general.

    Having said all that, my point is this: I believe that the world is heading to a completely secular age; at least, I think world society should go in that direction. Nevertheless, there will always be those spiritually inclined and too often genuine persons who feel that “spiritual truths” as revealed in ancient doctrines provide the best path of enlightenment for humanity. Therefore, I belive that it would be in organized religion’s best interests to isolate and secularize their moral teachings and develop them in light of modern society.

    (I know that is an extremely idealistic and nearly impossible goal to shoot for. I realize that many religious ideas about, for instance, homosexuals could well be discarded in light of some demagogues who recommend denying such individuals their full rights–or even suggesting execution by firing squad.)

    In short: there is such a thing as a positive outlet for human spiritual leanings, regardless of specific and ignorant quarrels that fundamentalists may have. I do not know much about the case that you described as an example, but I theorize that the religious leaders in question did not say “Religion has nothing to do with it”, they said “This is not all that our religion stands for.”

    I may not have faith in God, but I do have faith in humanity.

  • #26

    Re: Author’s comment 30/12/06

    Ms. O’Loughlin-

    I cannnot fathom what you are trying to say. Say it again but be clear. For example, what does the phrase “not easily absorb fragilities” refer to? That, and the point of the whole comment, totally eludes me. This is in contrast to your original article which expressed in crysal-clear fashion the savagery you and other children were forced to endure.

    As another reader suggested-can you sue these individuals, the church, the religious order for the damage they caused you and other children enslaved by them?

  • #27

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin.

    >I cannnot fathom what you are trying to say. Say it again but be clear. For example, what does the phrase “not easily absorb fragilities” refer to?<

    Follows on from the preceding line.

    So can we not be afforded a little bit of respect, or whatever one would like to call it.

    >I e-mailed the editor {Geraldine Kennedy} of the Irish Times and also the Irish Independent asking if they would possibily highlight issue.<

    I have written innumerable times to the Irish media about various issues pertaining to Goldenbridge Industrial School,and it will not entertain me. It does not want to know. It will not take on board new “inside” stories. All it does is rehash old ones already out there.

    In plain english I am being silenced. I know others who have found themselves in the same situation.

    The media will only accept mostly, stories coming from those acting as spokespersons for the institutionally abused.

    I find this despicable.

  • #28

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    Correction in last posting should have read – preceeding!

    >”does not easily absorb fragilities”<

    People who live in bigger countries have more freedom to express themselves without feeling fear.

    In Ireland, one is ostracised if one steps out of line.

    The media/Government are drinking out of the one bowl. The media even has offices within Dail Eireann.

    Both are also weary of victims/survivors of institutional abuse

    The Government wants those of us who were incarcerated in the past to just go away and be satisfied with the paltry pittance it puts before us.

    We are a thorn in their flesh.

    The comment that you did not understand was basically a general one related to Sr Helena O’Donoghue.

    Perhaps I should have posted it in the comments section of B&W.

  • #29

    Marie-Therese o’ Loughlin

    >As another reader suggested-can you sue these individuals, the church, the religious order for the damage they caused you and other children enslaved by them?<

    A dirty Indemnity deal, was some years ago struck between the Government and eighteen religious orders.

    See: RateYourSolicitor.com RYS FORUM, Solicitors comments, my name should appear, log onto {1} there you will find background knowledge on the Indemnity Deal.

    Also try Paddy Doyle’s “God Squad” website for interesting articles regarding Irish Institutional Abuse issues.

    Thank you for your interest.

    All posts and comments are © their respective authors.

Letters for January 2007: butterfliesandwheels.org

H/t Ophelia Benson.

Letters for January, 2007

  • #1

    Tom O’Callaghan

    Ms. O’Loughin-

    Get out of Ireland. These people do not value you. Save yourself. Try Italy. Better than Ireland. Guaranteed.

  • #2

    Marie-Therese O’ loughlin.

    A worldwide RIRB campaign was some years ago launched by Christine Buckley and Carmel Mc Donald The reason for this was children who suffered abuse whilst in institutions were/are entitled under the Irish Residential Institutions Redress Board to monetary awards and education grants.

    The search for victims/survivors took place in the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Approximately 150,000-plus children and teenagers went through industrial institutions in Ireland between the 1920s and the 1980s.

    Many of them would consistently have experienced abuse at the hands of the religious/others while in the orphanages, industrial schools and centres for young offenders.

    It is estimated that as many as 100,000 of those, who went through 100 such institutions, fled Ireland and went abroad.

    I too was a part of the Industrial School Diaspora, but returned to Ireland in 1986.

    I lived at one stage in a rural village in Co Cavan, and was perpetually terrified of coming to Dublin because of the nightmares it stirred up. I know others who grew up in Goldenbridge who share the same characteristic fears. Even getting off the boat at Dun Laoghaire was enough to send one into a spin. It took me years to face the fear of Dublin, and I aint going nowhere, not even to Italia. Thank you though for the thoughtful recommendation. I am posting this comment from an Internet Cafe on the Liffey quays, as I look out the condensated, window I see throngs of Dublin people and also foreign faces, the latter along with “myself” suffice it to add, gloatingly, are now shaping the new Ireland. I have “arrived” albeit late in the day and I can guarantee you that I would not dream of swapping the Irish Catholic ‘mafia’ way of life to that of the Italian Catholic ‘mafia’ way of life. The devil you know is better than the devil you do not know!

    Arriverdici, or rather, Slan agus beannacht.

  • #3

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin.

    I am going to send via e-mail/letter the Rosary Beads Factory article to every Irish politician/Senator that includes Taoiseach Bertie Ahern. I am determined, for what it is worth, to get my little spoke in before the final Report of “The Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse” comes out in 2007. US experts will be hired to fight the dirtiest May 2007 Irish election ever. Fianna Fail/Fine Gael will specifically employ the spin doctors with vast experience of negative merge victorious from the bruising campaign. You will undoubtedly find that

    the “REPORT” will also be strategically published, so as not to cause a commotion amongst the Irish Electorate. When The Ferns Report it had a devastating effect on the Irish nation, so as a consequence I am surmising that it will be a case of once bitten twice shy. Slan agus beannacht.

  • #4

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    Correction in last posting, it should have read: >Fianna Fail/Fine Gael will specifically employ the most feared top-flight strategist spin doctors with vast experience of ‘negative advertising, with either {FF/FG} having the intention of emerging victorious from what is expected, in decades to be the most bruising election campaign . >When the Ferns Report came out<

    Slan!

    Sorry for all the errors, my eyes are intermittently transfixed on the populace walking across the Halfpenny Bridge, Dublin. Judging from the amount of shopping bags I can see that January retail therapy is a must! Oh, what would life be like not to be a slave to fashion?

  • #5

    I was made a ward of the Marion County Juvenile Court in Indianapolis, Indiana, in 1985.

    Because of my age and behavioral problems, I was held in a group facility for troubled children. The name “orphanage” has not been in favor here for a very long time.

    At my first facility, we were supervised by staff who were cruel and capricious. We were supervised by a man named Dr. Pierce. Occasionally — for no discernable reason — we were ordered to sit on hard wood chairs against the wall. We were told this was not punishment, but to help us “get better”. We would be given a question written on paper. It would relate to some painful experience in our life. One of mine was “why do you hate your mother?”; I have made amends with her and will not detail the reasons why; however, that is not what Pierce was looking for and any reasonable answer was rejected.

    “Quiet Time” could last for days up to a month, from wake-up (6 am) to bed-time (10 pm). Each child spent about half their time sitting on a chair, and if they refused they were thrown into an empty room and the door locked for days, weeks — until they agreed to sit on the chair and finish their sentence.

    Many of us spent months on those chairs, with only a few day break in between month-long stretches.

    I was sexually assaulted by a female caseworker employed by the Indiana Department of Child Services. These people (caseworkers) are fundamentally evil human beings who enjoy torturing and harming children.

    I was struck by this line in the article:

    “We constantly rocked backwards and forwards in our desks as we worked. This had a dual purpose: self-soothing, and hurrying to get the work finished.”

    We rocked constantly too.

    love,

    kevin brown

    indianapolis, indiana

  • #6

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin.

    >”Why do you hate your mother?”<

    This sentence sounds very familiar to me as similar words were used during counselling sessions, I did not have a clue what the trauma expert was saying, as I never had any cognisant reminiscence of a mother

    Nevertheless, it is true to say that parental/caregiver attachment loss early on in life can have a profound philosophical effect on a young persons life.

    Incidentally, I am left wondering what the credentials were of this Dr. Pierce?

    He strikes me as if he was doing some ghastly therapy? It is good that you have made amends with your mother. I always say to people, who take their mothers for granted cherish them always irrespective of whatever, because one only ever has one mother. I can post this sentiment with unutterable conviction having, unfortunately, lost a mother at a very young age. Not through death I should add.

    Did you report the “alleged sexual abuse? It is imperative, if not, I would surmise, though that trying to convince the authorities would be a gruelling task. Sexual abuse wasc rampant in a lot of institutions. Deviants, naturally as the day is long, seek to work in child institutions so as to give expression to their unnatural desires

    Sexual abuse also occurred in my respective institution. however; the perpetrator did not get away too lightly. The sister in charge reported it to the Gardai, subsequently; the culprit was charged and convicted.

    Rocking, rocking, rocking was a hobby with children in Goldenbridge,especially

    with those who had no family visitors.Children would rock their young lives away,as they violently banged their heads/backs against the “rec” walls {commonly known as the “wreck”} whilst sucking on three fingers and thumb at the same time, also animalistic sounds were utterred, by “the rockers” during the whole process. It was very cathartic as one could virtually block out every thing.

    I can identify with you in relation to “sitting on the hard benches” and with “having to remain silent”. We had to put our index fingers on our lips and were not allowed to move during parts of our II:AM so-called school break.

    Children were stripped of their clothing, WHILST BEING BEATEN TO A PULP by SADISTIC staff if they dared to disobey. This humiliating behaviour occured in front of countless children, it was a warning to one and all that woe betide ye if ye dare at all to step out of line. Nobody did!

    I note that your posting is from the United States of America! Thanks!

    Slan!

  • #7

    I;m a gay muslim, and can I jus they this person is wrong, jus come to Victoria and you will see how we are teated – kids follow me home every day and call me a paki, what would you do?

    Ahhh

  • #8

    interval_illusion

    About Freud’s works, it’s yet to be proven that applies to the whole of human species, which I personally doubt. People coming from Far East cannot be treated by Freudian psychoanalysis, I reckon.

  • #9

    Dear Ms. O’ Loughlin,

    My experience did not compare in severity to yours, or likely in as deep of wounds to heal for me. The facility I was at never hit me; I had good teachers in the on-site school (small, just us kids); some of the staff were kind and decent, especially as the years went on.

    We were a collection of mis-fits who for various reasons were ineligible for the State group-home, which was called Knightstown. Some were anorexic, some were suicidal, etc. We all wished to be in Knightstown; an irony of my life is that I learned later in life that the children in Knightstown suffered severe abuse at that time.

    The caseworker who assaulted me did not do so out of prurient sexual interest in me. It was to “teach me a lesson”. I was restrained to a bed and a pair of scissors placed on my genitalia, with a long threat about dismemberment. I was about fifteen years old when that occurred.

    The caseworker is an old woman now, likely in her sixties. I have forgiven her. I do not agree with your comment about parents. I have not spoken to my mother in a long time. I cannot comment at all about the circumstance out of respect for her privacy.

    I was really struck by the rocking description. I have never related about that to anyone in my life. I have done a lot of healing over the years; various groups etc. I would rock methodically sixteen hours a day; my variation was ceasing to rock for some time period. It was very comforting after days stretched into weeks, and I had spoken to no one. We all did it.

    I wonder often about how those kids ended up that I was with. I think about them probably every week, I would guess. I’ve never said their names — so anna, tj, dusty, jenny, all of you. God bless you and keep you safe.

    There is a link off of wikipedia’s “the family” page with stories from people who grew up in the Children of God organization and left. Although nothing in my life was that bad, I could relate to bits here and there in the stories they tell.

    love,

    kevin

  • #10

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    I am posting this from the same Internet cafe as before. The surroundings outside are pretty, with the Halfpenny Bridge all lit up and throngs of people to-ing and fro-ing making their way to the various pubs. The landscape though, despite its beauty pales into insignificance in comparison to the view right next to me. It consists of this foreign chap, his language is indecipherable, he is in deep conversation on the Internet no, not with his girlfriend, but with that of his dear “mother”, whom he frequently calls by name….. MAMA. I am totally mesmerised with the vibes and affection that is flowing between them. The relationship between them is so unreservedly beautiful. Every day it is the same. I become so sad because of the overwhelming effect. It recalls to mind a lovely Irish popular ballad.”A mother’s love is a blessing no matter where you roam, keep her while she is with you because you will miss her when she is gone, love her as in childhood, though feeble old and grey, sure, you will never miss your mother until she is buried beneath the grave. I personally do not know what a mother’s love is but I can only guess that if it is anything like what I am right now witnessing – well, I am thinking what have I missed out on in life! The foreign chap is now so close up to the screen, lovingly talking to her, and do you know what, Mama is soothingly and contentedly ROCKING BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS. So happy to be in contact with a son she so tenderly loves. I am the last person to be giving advice about mothers as I have no personal experience. You were lucky to have gone though therapy. I never had any success with any Counsellor. I find it hard to trust people. I spent six months with a trauma expert, and did not open my mouth, I was more interssted in the Egyptian regalia that adorned her beautiful house, it endeed distastously. Victims/survivors of the institutions are ordinarily very wary of Counsellors.

    Thanks, and slan!

  • #11

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    Disastrously, interested, = correct spellings = last posting, my eyes were not in the right place.

  • #12

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    >The caseworker who assaulted me did not do so out of prurient sexual interest in me. It was to “teach me a lesson”.,<

    Have you ever encountered your caseworker to tell her how you have felt? as SHE TOO NEEDS TO BE TAUGHT A LESSON! It can be very therapeutic. Have you also ever found yourself, without realisation, transferring anger onto other older people, because of the mercenary threat made on you a vulnerable age – as the propensity for suchlike is very common indeed. Anyway, am sure you would have learned all about these things in counselling.

    I found it very hard to shake hands with the ex Superior of Goldenbridge Industrial School, as the the hand that was offered was a bionic one, not a real one. The lies that were told by people who are supposed to be “holy” is what I find – unfathomable. There is a group here in Dublin called – “one in four” it deals particularly with people who were, as children – sexually abused. The Co Founder, Colm O’ Gorman was himself a victim of Clerical abuse. To round off

    I personally do not think that a collection of children with behavioural problems should be lumped together.

    We were always threatened with being sent to other institutions, one of which was MOATE, in Co Westmeath, from what I have gathered, from Kathleen O’ Malley’s account “Childhood Interrupted” it was a brutal!

    Slan!

  • #13

    Crews, Esterson et. al dablers in psychoanalysis are for Freud what the “intelligent designers” are for Darwin.

    But now Esterson (in his last article at B&W) is proudly remembering us that the late “expert” in Islam, Ernest Gellner, was sharing their opinions on Freud and psychoanalysis.

    I rhetorically wonder if Esterson too shares Gellner’s opionios on Mohamed and islam.

    Gellner found writing easy and thus he found obliged to type an opinion on pretty much everything from analytical philosophy and liquistics to “the dictatorship of the free market”, psychoanalysis and his, most beloved, “high” Islam.

    Gellner did not see a contradiction between Islam and modernity (Islam is rational, universalist etc.)

    For years he wrote, for who was idiot enough to believe him, that Islam and Modernization were absolutely compatible. But he meant urban, sharia disciplined Islam, not the relaxed, generous Islam of the countryside that still quite cheerfully accommodates other traditions and learns to adapt dogma to the practical needs of getting in the harvest, or simply getting along with one’s neighbors.

    “High Islam stresses the severely monotheistic and nomocratic nature of Islam, it is mindful of the prohibition of claims to mediation between God and man, and it is generally oriented towards puritanism and scripturalism.”

    (E.Gellner)

    Gellner was worse, way more toxic, than feeble minded “thinkers” as Karen Armstrong who write newspaper-level thus who are easy to dimiss even by the average educated.

    He was in the class of people as Noam Chomsky. People who have done in the last 30 years immense harm to the western civilization in their bizzare drive to intellectually disarm and confuse it, and undo its achievements.

    Freud got on his list.

  • #14

    Ovidiu Stoica writes ‘Crews, Esterson et. al dablers in psychoanalysis are for Freud what the “intelligent designers” are for Darwin’.

    One can only say that Freud is to the mind what “Intelligent Dsigners” are to biology.

  • #15

    One can say anything he wants, for instance that “Newton is to physics what the intelligent designers are to biology”, and so on.

    This “postmodern” thrust to deconstruct everything IS the “fashionable nonsense” of our times.

  • #16

    Ovidiu Stoica is right that one can say anything that one likes, but since he started this “A is to B as ID is to Darwin” business perhaps he now thinks better of it.

    I note that he has not offered any reason to support his particular analogy.

    Here’s why my version is correct.

    – Freudianism and ID are not scientific.

    – While scientists go about the work of understanding the mind and biology, Freudianism and ID are mired in their own parallel universes where stupidity and falsehoods reign.

    – While scientists are willing to change their minds, Freudians and IDers are so convinced of the correctness of theories that they will never change theirs.

    – Freudians and IDers behave like members of a cult and do not tolerate dissent.

  • #17

    Paul.

    By your standards biologists would be unscientific because– “mired in their parallel own universe of falshood and stupidiy” as you said– they behave cult like and eject those who come with ID theories since scientific biologists never change their mind on the correctness of Darwin’s theory.

    [a theory which, it happens, is also circular and unfasifiable just as Freud psychoanalysis, so much of Popper-criterion]

  • #18

    I have heard this before. I studied Freud in college, and it made me think and it really seemed he was pretty accurate. I am not ready to abandon Freud. His protoge Jung makes a lot of sense also. I guess modern psychology has to find a way to intergrate the old ideas of Freud and Jung with new discoveries.

  • #19

    Controversies in Contemporary Psychoanalysis

  • #20

    Freud helped start the ball rolling when psychoanalysis was in its infancy. As most beginnings, a foundation was laid for others to stand and build on. Help has always been around, whether just talking to family and friends or classics such as Shakespeare with revelations of human nature. People go to psychologist and psychiatrist for years. Most people change when they want to change. As Abraham Lincon once said, “People are only as happy as they make up their minds to be.”

    The human mind is infinitely complex. That’s what i think. As for the suggestion – mimetism, mixing facts with interpretations – therein lies your problem with psychology… every single person is different. How can anyone exact a science around an infinite number of possibilites? Sometimes opinion holds truth.

  • #21

    The falsehoods of the ID movement are documented monthly and sometimes weekly by sites such as The Panda’s Thumb (http://www.pandasthumb.org/). As I type, the second item on the site is called “More DI Distortions About Axe’s Research”, DI being the Discovery Institute . Indeed the very name “Intelligent Design” was invented as an untruth to cover the fact that it was the same old creationism that US courts had ruled could not be taught in public school science classrooms.

    Can you supply anything similar about biology, or is this just your latest outpouring of empty thetoric?

  • #22

    Regarding Popper and the falsifiability of the theory of evolution, seehttp://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA211_1.html.

    Popper’s final position was

    “… I have in the past described the theory [of Natural Selection] as ‘almost tautological’, and I have tried to explain how the theory of natural selection could be untestable (as is a tautology) and yet of great scientific interest….I have changed my mind about the testability and the logical status of the theory of natural selection; and I am glad to have an opportunity to make a recantation. My recantation may, I hope, contribute a little to the understanding of the status of natural selection. “

  • #23

    Paul: Ovidiu’s lengthy response to you just below illustrates that there is no way one can have fruitful intellectual exchanges with someone who has embraced a closed system of ideas that can not only ‘explain’ virtually any relevant state of affairs, but also ‘explain’ why anyone who disagrees with them is wrong.

  • #24

    Thanks Allen. I noted that the last time Ovidiu posted here you gave up in exasperation. There is indeed something nightmarish about trying to debate him. I am reminded of the tv series “The Prisoner”.

  • #25

    Ovidiu:

    Can you now kindly address the substance of my posts?

    Can you provide some equivalent untruths from biologists about evolution? Or in some other manner justify your claim that I must think them unscientific ?

  • #26

    Ovidiu:

    You earlier wrote:

    ‘By your standards biologists would be unscientific because– “mired in their parallel own universe of falshood and stupidiy” as you said– they behave cult like and eject those who come with ID theories since scientific biologists never change their mind on the correctness of Darwin’s theory. ‘

    I have indicated how far apart truth and ID are. Now I want you to back up your claim above, which is not about biologists but about what I said about them. What is it about my standards that means that biologists are liars or stupid or both?

  • #27

    >But reading your quote I was surprised to discover that Popper eventually changed (in his old age I assume) his mind on Darwin and I was asking if he revised too his views on Freud.<

    Paul: I warned you you’re wasting your time on a never-ending spiral of point-counter point! Re Ovidiu’s sentence above, the (apparent) implication is false: namely that Popper rejected Darwinian evolution and then accepted it. Popper was only writing in relation to what he regarded (on the basis of his own definition of science) as the *scientific status* of the theory of Natural Selection. He didn’t change his mind about “Darwin” (in the sense of the theory itself, which he accepted), only about its status. Of course he never changed his mind about the [very little] value of Freudian theory for numerous reasons, and there is absolutely no point in Ovidiu’s attempting to link in some way Popper’s attitude to Darwinian evolution and his attitude to classical psychoanalysis.

  • #28

    Allen:

    Your point is well made. That’s why I want Ovidiu to tell us what it is about *my* standards that damn biologists, not *his* standards.

    As the quotes from Popper in the link I quoted show, he was a little confused about the notion that Natural Selection is tautologous, until late in life he realised his mistake.

    However I made no mention of Popper anywhere in my list of commonalities between ID and Freudianism so this whole Popper business is not pertinent to the exchange between Ovidiu and me.

    So, to repeat:

    I want Ovidiu to tell us what it is about *my* standards that leave biologists “mired in their own parallel universes where stupidity and falsehoods reign”, not *his* standards.

  • #29

    Problem is that the Koran is a manual of war. Read it. It has entire chapters titled “The Spoils [of War]” and “The Ranks [of War]“. The Koran is one long rationalization for invading ones neighbors killing their men and turning their women into baby factories to generate new Muslims. That’s exactly how it reads.

  • #30

    I am going to lower the tone of the debate by a couple of notches.

    What a puffed up bore you are!

    John

  • #31

    Make-up in Islam…

    why she needs to make up…

    She makes herself beautiful for him

    She makes herself beautiful for her husband by means of make-up, clothing, etc., so that she will appear more beautiful and attractive, and thus make her husband happy. This was the practice of the righteous women of the salaf, who used to devote their time to worshipping Allah and reading Qur’an. Foremost among them were `A’ishah (May Allah be pleased with her) and others; they used to wear fine clothes and jewellery at home and when they were travelling, in order to make themselves look beautiful for their husbands.

    Bakrah bint `Uqbah came to `A’ishah (May Allah be pleased with her) and asked her about henna. `A’ishah said, “It comes from a good tree and pure water.” She asked her about removing body hair, and she said, “If you have a husband, and you could remove your eyes and replace them with something better, then do it.”66

    Let those careless women who neglect their appearance in front of their husbands listen to the advice of `A’ishah, and realize that their beauty should be primarily for their husbands, not for their friends and peers. Those women who are failing to make themselves beautiful for their husbands are sinners, because they are falling short in one of the greatest duties of marriage. Their negligence may be the cause of their husbands staying away from them and looking at other women.

    The wife whose husband only ever sees her with unkempt hair, looking pale and wan and wearing shabby old clothes, is a foolish and disobedient wife. It will be of no help to her if she rushes to beautify herself only when receiving guests, or going to a women’s party, but remains looking shabby most of the time in front of her husband. I think that the Muslim woman who is truly guided by the teachings of Islam will be safe from such shortcomings, because she treats her husband properly, and a woman who treats her husband properly is most unlikely to fail in fulfilling her duty towards him.

    It is one of the teachings of Islam that a woman should make herself look beautiful for her husband, so that her husband should only ever see of her that which he likes. So it is forbidden for a woman to dress in mourning for more than three days, except in the case of her husband’s death, when she is permitted to mourn for four months and ten days. We find proof of this in the hadith narrated by Bukhari from Zaynab the daughter of Umm Salamah, who said, “I came to Zaynab bint Jahsh, the wife of the Prophet (PBUH) when her brother died. She called for perfume and applied it to herself, then said, “I am not wearing perfume because I need to, but because I heard the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) say from the minbar:

    “It is not permitted for a woman who believes in Allah (SWT) and the Last Day to grieve for more than three days, except for her husband, (for whom she may grieve) four months and ten days.”67

  • #32

    Muslim women wear Hijab because they want to submit to God. Muslim women are pious industrious and WHY THE HELL should we apologize for what we do with our own bodies…

    So I am oppressed because I am not hanging around in a mini-skirt showing my body???? or showing my hair???? …..

    HOW CAN PEOPLE JUGE 1.6 BILLION PEOPLE AND CLASSIFY THEM?????

    if anyone oppresses me are the stupid people that walk up to me and assume I am not even an American or that I should go back to my country LOL!!!! WELL I AM IN MY COUNTRY AND I HAVE FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH and so do all AMERICAN MUSLIMS!!! I WOULD PROTECT MY RIGHT AS WELL AS THE RIGHT OF MY NON-MUSLIM FRIENDS Who also believe we are free to worship when we want, as we want wheere we want and IF WE WANT!!!

  • #33

    Hayat,

    I find the idea of wearing an item of clothing as a sign of submission to god, laughable. In addition, I also feel a slight sense of revulsion at the idea of women (or men) being ‘pious’. Piety makes my skin crawl.

    Obviously, it is your prerogative to believe whichever superstitious nonsense your want (islam, christianity, buddhism; take your pick) and adjust your dress code accordingly. That is fine, as long as I don’t hear about women (like me) being called names (or worse) for daring to show their hair, or a couple of inches of flesh above their feet (gasp!).

    JL

  • #34

    Ovidiu,

    I have had the dubious fortune to be involved with a psychoanalytic institute for a while, as an external consultant.

    Leaving psychoanalytic theory aside, it seems to me that the practice of psychoanalysis is noting more than a racket. I can assure you that the needs of ‘patients’ comes a very poor second behind the squabbles over titles, status, rival organisations and schools of psychotherapy. Not to mention the gossip, the financial need for both trainees and qualified members to retain their ‘patients’ for as long as possible, the cover up of unethical behaviour especially when the perpetrator is a senior member of an organisation. The endless hand-wringing over the dwindling number of patients who can pay for four or even five weekly section.

    It’s truly stomach churning.

    Katie

    Trust me Ovidiu,

  • #35

    Freud was brilliant! Yet, he did not have “all” the answers. But, he had the vision to see it’s start. I imagine that the Wright Brothers would appear much the same way. Their “Flying Machine” has been greatly improved upon, but they too had the brilliance to have vision and initiate a hard sought concept.

    A better way to view Freud and all those mentioned is this… Their concepts are like broken pieces of mirror. Each reflect a small bit of truth, but none are truth itself. It is the sum of all the pieces that make up truth. However, at this time the sum is still incomplete. There is so much more to be learned in regards to the human mind. Each great visionary will continue to add another piece to the mirror until someday the mirror will become whole.

    Take from each piece thier truths and let go of thier fallacies. And develop your understanding from the things they have taught us.

  • #36

    Hilde writes:

    > Freud was brilliant! Yet, he did not have “all” the answers. But, he had the vision to see it’s start.<

    I don’t know quite what you mean by “it’s start” (to find all the answers?), but it is part of the Freud legend that he was the originator of methodical investigations into the human psyche. If you read Ellenberger’s *The Discovery of the Unconscious* (1970), or more specifically for the United States context *Mind Games: American Culture and the Birth of Psychotherapy* (E. Caplin, 2001), you’ll see that was not the case.

    > Each great visionary will continue to add another piece to the mirror until someday the mirror will become whole.<

    This presumes that Freud provided us with “visions” that are worth retaining. In other words you are assuming what is being disputed. To take just one example: The psychiatric profession in the United States has only in recent decades largely recovered from its misplaced belief in Freudian notions. See:

    R. M. Dawes, *House of Cards: Psychology and Psychotherapy Built on Myth* (1994).

    E. Dolnick, *Madness on the Couch: Blaming the Victim in the Heyday of Psychoanalysis* (1998)

    J. Paris, *The Fall of an Icon: Psychoanalysis and Academic Psychiatry* (2005).

  • #37

    Spelling correction to a reference:

    E. Dolnick, *Madness on the Couch: Blaming the Victim in the Heyday of Psychoanalysis* (1998)

  • #38

    Science is based upon a realm of discernable and testable cause and effect relationships. As such, properly applied, psychoanalysis has proven that there are indeed certain established causes and effects upon a person’s behavior when subjected to different social, emotional and psychological stimuli. Because these affects have been numerously documented, explored, and proven, the realm of psychoanalysis falls under the realm of science.

  • #39

    Ovidiu:

    Thank you for confirming what I thought: you come along making all sorts of sweeping statements that you cannot back up. You said that by *my* standards biology is not science. I asked you to justify that. No amount of smoke from you can obscure the fact that you can’t.

    And another thing: if you ” really don’t feel like debating IDs vs. Darwin” then *you* should not have introduced the topic. Your bluff has been called.

  • #40

    Ikillfish: You wrote:

    >…properly applied, psychoanalysis has proven that there are indeed certain established causes and effects upon a person’s behavior when subjected to different social, emotional and psychological stimuli. Because these affects have been numerously documented, explored, and proven, the realm of psychoanalysis falls under the realm of science.<

    I really have no idea what “causes and effects” to which you can be referring that psychoanalysis has “documented and proven”. For the most part, psychoanalytic ‘proofs’ consist of the analyst’s interpretation in the light of preconceived theory. And, of course, different schools of psychoanalysis (talk about a “broad church”!) come up with different ‘findings’, all shown to be the case by their own brand of analytic interpretation.

  • #41

    Máire Úna Ní Bheaglaoich

    Marie Therese, a chara, What you have described leaves me speechless. Thank you for your courage and conciseness in giving words to the terror inflicted on you and too many other innocents.I wish you a speedy solution in your quest for justice. Máire.

  • #42

    Allen,

    The reason why you are so hostile to the truth of psychoanalysis is possibly due to the resistance!

    If you agree with the psychoanalyst, then psychoanalysis work. If you disagree with the psychoanalyst, that is a sign that repression and resistance are at work in your psyche. But psychoanalysis still works.

    You can’t win with Freudian theory!

    Freud was a charlatan, and his disciples are no better.

    Joe

  • #43

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    >“At the same time, however, there is clear evidence that large numbers of incidents have been fabricated, imagined or retrieved as ‘memories’ as a result of counselling or other forms of suggestion.”<

    >“It would indeed be remarkable if the creation of the Redress Board, which has extended extraordinarily generous terms both to complainants and to their lawyers, did not lead to a very high level of false allegations”<

    Richard Webster, will you please generate the “clear evidence” that you appear to have as I so much so would “clearly” love to know how you so “clearly know” that large numbers of victims/survivors of institutional abuse are imagining, or are under the influence of counsellors, with regards to fabricating past abuse. Faoiseamh, an Irish counselling support system, that was exclusively set by the Religious prior to CICA and RIRB for those who were in institutions {and of which is currently also for those who come under the remit of clerical abuse} would also earnestly be interested in knowing

    Counsellors, CICA and the RIRB all have confidentiality clauses ingrained in their practices, so how does someone like you, who does not even live in the Irish jurisdiction seem to know so much in this respect that victims/survivors do not, the mind boggles on this one. Unless perhaps – you can tell me this for nothing , are you perhaps getting information from a certain ex Irish Seminarian, who was recently doing London rounds trying to find the dirt on Peter Tyrrell, who burned himself alive because he could not get the demons of his past Letterfrack institutional life out of his mortal system. Perhaps we shall have to wait for your next publication to read all about it. I wonder will you get another glowing review from none other than our very own Professor Anthony Clare.

    Richard Webster, we were accused of creating another “Salem Witch hunt” by people who have an agenda. What is yours might I ask politely?

    I am a genuine victim/survivor of institutional abuse. I worked as a child all my young life in a Rosary bead factory instead of being educated. I will not consequently stand by and consent to you to deride those of us – who grew up – in these loathsome mini type concentration camps that were religiously strategically dotted all over the Irish landscape. The clergy/parents ad infinitum threatened children with these hideous brutal gulags. I was, by the judicial system, unlawfully incarcerated, {along with thousands of others} at the ripe “old age” of four years and a half – having come from a feeder institution were I was from the age of nought. I will as a consequence – be damned if I will remain silent after reading your despicable drivel. Margaret Jarvis from the FMS got more than a taster some years ago when she tried the same jape on Irish soil. Richard Webster, try analysing yourself and your motives for a change. You may have taken Britain by storm when you released Why Freud was Wrong, but you are just another storm in a teacup to me at this very moment. A good title for your next book should definitely be – Why Richard Was Wrong.!

  • #44

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    Maire

    Go raibh mile maith agaibh go leir Slán go fóill!

  • #45

    Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

    >Another country, which has developed a particularly intense and dangerous crusade against child abuse, is the Republic of Ireland. <

    Raven – first published the God Squad, written by Paddy Doyle in 1989.

    I wrote to the Regina Coeli Institution in 1984 having learned about my deleterious neglect. I am a natural hoarder and as a result- have retained correspondences relating to it to this day.

    Peter Tyrrell, who burned himself alive on Hampstead Heath in the eighties never stopped going on about the brutal regime of Letterfrack. Christine Buckley wrote a letter to Goldenbridge’s Sr. X in the early eighties. She also, in the sixties, asked a milkman to deliver a letter of complaint, hence the alleged beating when she was found out. A group of Artane boys during the sixties complained to a political visitor {Lenihan} about the brutality of the place. The TD who was just about to leave cried to his chauffeur; let me get the f**ck out of here, as quickly as possibly. Again during the sixties inmates, of the industrial schools through the medium of someone who had clout made other complaints to Charlie Haughey. The Irish political Machiavellian of his day when asked what was he going to do about the institutional abuse situation., the answer was; “you know, this is simply not a vote catcher.”

    Another Artane child in the sixties {Flanagan} had his arm broken by a Christian Brother and a complaint was made by his parent’s to the Dept of Education. NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING was done in all of these extraordinarily staid situations. I could be here till the cows come home telling analogous stories.

    Oh yeah, to round off with a sour note – Goldenbridge was a hell hole.

  • #46

    Милева Марич была сверхновой звездой, которая вращалась вокруг черной дыры. ТОлько женщина, очарованная и околдованная наукой способна была сделать открытия на кончике пера, которые потрясли мир. Только она и она только была способна на самопожертвование, только ее гениальность и математический склад ума позволили ей увидеть то, что еще не ясно даже сейчас.

    Пора понять в 21 веке, что невозможное невозможно, и тот кто не имеет слуха не может услышать музыку поющих математических сфер. Пора поднять именно эту женщину на ту высоту, на которой она должна находится по праву.

  • #47

    Ms. Majedi struck asympathetic chord within me. Covering women in face and body hiding veils manipulates them as much as western culture does in glorifying big breasts and pornography. Is there a balance somewhere?

  • #48

    Below is an electronic translation of the letter in Russian from LDN. If anyone has sufficient knowledge of Russian to provide a better translation, please do so!

    Mileva Maric was a supernova who rotated around a black hole. ONLY the woman fascinated and bewitched was capable to make a science opening on a tip of a feather which have shaken the world. Only she and she only was capable of self-sacrifice, only her genius and mathematical mentality have allowed her to see that is yet clear even now. It is time to understand in 21 century, that impossible it is impossible, and that who has hearing can hear music of singing mathematical spheres. It is time to lift this woman on that height on which she should be by right.

  • #49

    Oh…I am glad that Freud is dead and cannot sue me .Because he was very stupid . He thought God is created by our imaginations , and demons a created by our imagination. In fact is vice-versa.God provided us with imagination and demons are tempting us …at least in our imagination when they cannot do it for real ”..And lead us not into temptation…”That is my opinion…and I am very sure , nothing can change it , because nothing can make God disapear.

  • #50

    to “Ana Freud”:

    You have given a simplified description of Freudianism and stated your belief that is it correct.

    Nothing you have written constitutes a defence of Freudianism. You have neither offered any evidence in its support nor have you shown why we should not accept the critiques made of it.

  • #51

    Ovidiu:

    Welcome back. You will have to forgive me for not being content with relying on your opinion for anything as you showed when you were last here that you are happy to write any sort of nonsense; and then when you are asked to back it up you lapse into silence. This makes it impossible to distinguish your claims from empty rhetoric.

    Allen Esterson does indeed operate on a different level to me on this issue, but then we both operate in a different intellectual universe to you. We concern ourselves with logical consitency and evidence while you just produce a mess of unsubstantiated claims and illogic.

  • #52

    Ovidiu wrote ‘…but by itself it does not prove false or true a given statement or body of knowledge. Such things stand or fall by their own…’

    The problem with your statement, Ovidiu, is that psychoanalysis does not exists entirely as an academic theory. It is applied to real ‘patients’ who sit on real couches for years on end paying a lot of money for a lot of bulls. Sadly, psychoanalysis keeps a foothold in the NHS and in education for which we all pay tax.

    I resent paying tax to subsidise the activity of a bunch of charlatans. Actually, a number of psychoanalysists that I have met are not just charlatans; they are crooks.

    Katie

    All posts and comments are © their respective authors.

Literacy Writing Skills at Butterfliesandwheels.org. Archives.

Name: Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin Date: 07/10/2009

Comment:

“Do you remember we were handed old shoes worn by many over the years, once a year, from that shoe cupboard”

Firstly, thanks for that information re the letter. I cannot decipher who M.D. and T.R. are, by their initials? Yep, I remember clearly getting every year horrible old shoes and toe-lo’s, as we called the latter and plastic sandals during the summer months. The summer sandals, etc, were tied in pairs and piled up in a big heap in a very small cupboard opposite Ms. D’s room. I know from a lot of survivors that they subsequently suffered feet problems because of having to wear grossly inadequate foot-wear throughout their young lives. The large shoe-room (the one I was locked in for hours upon end), right next to Our Lady’s dormitory, housed all the new patent leather shoes and hornpipes that children wore for their communion and confirmation. They were faithfully returned to their respective shoe-boxes after the duration of their special holy days. Children attending court sessions also received shoes from staff members, from this room – which they instantaneously had to return after their appearances in court. You would never see La la’s hanging out of the small cupboard in search of appropriate footwear. They wore only the very best- sized shoes from the posh shoe-room. I remember as a child distinctly having to polish all the children’s shoes in the rec – in winter, and in summer – in the yard. Newspapers were laid out in a large space and I polished and polished away over a hundred and fifty pairs of shoes with the help of a handful of other children. We just took it for granted that this was the kind of thing children generally did. We became experts – the prison numbers of children had also to be refreshed on the insides with a special black marker. I know that there was a time when children had to wear hobnailer boots – so we should have considered ourselves lucky in that sense that we escaped by a mere scrape that prisoner boots era. I remember going into a dreadful tantrum because my communion hornpipes, that were bought especially for me by a host family, were suddenly snatched from me by a staff member, the moment I returned back to the institution, after a week-end out with the host family. I was flogged black and blue by the head honcho for the outburst. This family were big- time into the clothes business and they showered me with handmade beautiful frilly clothes and they too were all confiscated upon my return to Goldenbridge. The pets were to be seen by me afterwards wearing them and oh, how oftentimes, I pulled at their aeroplanes, which were hovering neatly over their swelled heads and caused disarray. BTW, Bridget S, is a pseudonymous name – am I correct? I personally refuse to hide behind another name anymore – as people in the blogosphere world have the propensity to abuse one and try to rip one even further apart – and it simply compounds unjustifiably the pain and trauma that one suffered as a child. I do not have to worry any longer about people trying to out me as a victim/survivor of institutional abuse. I am proud to stand up and be counted. There is so much fear within most victims/survivors of institutional abuse and I feel that they are still enslaved by their pasts. Why should they feel beholden to their loved ones and hide their pain to safeguard their loved ones security – because in the end it is a false security that is being passed on to them. The truth is better in the end as it sets one free. I have B&W to thank for being able to express myself as the person I am – now. I would thoroughly recommend to all ex Goldenbridge institution comrades that they should feel free to be themselves and not be what others in their lives might want them to be. We may have been part of the judicial system when we were children, through no fault of our own – but we do not have to always remain criminals or slaves – to ones’ families or the world at large.

Name: Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin Date: 27/09/2009

Comment:

Re: Leo Igwe’s Public Symposium on Witchcraft. Thank you L. I. for opening our B&W eyes to witchcraft in Nigeria. Crikey, you really had to put up with a lot of nerve-wrecking bullying at the Cultural Centre in Calabar. So called Evangelist Helen Ukpabio and other pastors (who are presumably raking in exorbitant amounts of dosh from their nefarious, monstrous witchcraft rag trades) have certainly got a lot to answer for trying to foist these fiendish witchcraft labels on to innocent children. Because of the dastardly presence of them and the Boko Haram Islamic sect, life sounds so utterly discomfiting for ordinary folk in Nigeria. On several occasions in the past I accompanied a person to a Pentecostal “Victory” church in Westland Row, Dublin. I was bowled over with the beautiful singing. I shall be thinking differently about what the real ideology of this church is, in future. A lot of the attendees and organisers would be of Nigerian or African nationality. The Nigerian Humanist Movement and Stepping Stones Nigeria are doing marvellous work and are to be congratulated indeed! Well done, Leo igwe!

Name: Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin Date: 23/09/2009

Comment:

“I remember there were a few girls in Goldenbridge who were born extremely bright, had they been given the chance could have been high achievers in the outside world”

Were not the names you mention given the opportunity by the Sisters of Mercy to go to the outside national/secondary school, during the same time as Christine (Chrissie West) Buckley? From what I gather some other children bowed out due to school pressures. I learned from CB that M.C. and P.J. were exceptional (outside school) scholars. Do you have any recollection of Sr. M.B. from whom Sr. X alleged learned her skills? I believe she was even worse than the latter. Yeah, a lot of children used to hide in the cupboard when they did not want to go to evening-times benediction in the chapel. I recall being locked (for an inordinate amount of time) in the shoe-room on the landing, when I was very small. I also remember staff threatening to throw children out of the two storeyed high Sacred Heart window if they were tumbling about in play. “None of us could take any more of the beatings neglect, cruelty, the pain of having to watch floggings by nuns and staff” Do you ever remember children (who either wet their beds or whatever else) having to line up in St Patrick’s – the queue even sometimes extended into St. Philomena’s and beyond into the washroom. Sr. X relished so much flogging and lashing the living ‘bejasus’ daylight out of them. It seemed to me that this ‘fix” was so desperately needed by her in order to get through her day. Yeah, children were absolutely worn out with the beatings and there was nobody around to rescue them as the other staff who stood by were too much in awe of her. Some victims/survivors who went to the commission to inquire into institutional abuse to tell their stories to Judge Ryan were still controlled by Sr. X. as when they were asked by Sr. Helena O’ Donoghue if they wished to see Sr. X. they did not refuse and even gave the latter a big hug. Nonetheless, it is very much understandable. “Marie and Pauline wrote the letter and gave it to the postman, but the next thing the head nun, the other horrible cruel nun and staff lined us all in the rec demanding to know who wrote the letter as the postman had given it back to Sister X.” I heard a similar story and outcome of it on the “Dear Daughter” documentary which depicts life in GB. Did this story happen on another occasion? It was sad to hear about the death Kathleen O’ Neill, Mary Gavin and Valerie Logue and Bridie Gaynor. Would you have remembered them at all? “The only available water for us to drink was from the toilet – with mouths dry with fear there was a rush to the toilet.” Yeah, I vividly remember sticking a can (with gold mirrored lining inside) into the end of the yard stinking toilets to scoop up water to drink. It was so refreshing. I also remember being dragged out of bed in the Sacred Heart (‘wet the bed’ dormitory) in the early hours of the morning and being forced to sit two to one toilet. Children invariably slipped on the drenched urine floors in their confused overtired states as well as from being pushed by staff to hurry up. I also used to wash my underclothes at the dead of night and place them between the torn army blanket or underneath my sheet where I lay. This way I got out of being humiliated when we had to show them to the staff for inspection. As you know, children who were not crafty enough were subjected to having them put up on display in the workroom.

Farewell Mary Raftery R.I.P.: from institutional/clerical child abuse & Magdalen Laundry survivors.

Mary Raftery, 54; exposed Irish abuse scandal

Bruce Weber: NEW YORK TIMES JANUARY 17, 2012

NEW YORK – Mary Raftery, a journalist whose television documentaries exposed decades of abuse of needy children in state-sponsored, church-run schools in Ireland, prompting an apology by the prime minister and a government investigation, died of cancer Jan. 10 in Dublin. She was 54.

Ms. Raftery uncovered the child abuse as a producer for Ireland’s national broadcasting service, RTE, and brought it to national attention in “States of Fear,’’ a three-part documentary series broadcast in April and May 1999. In examining the state child-care system in Ireland, the series brought to light a Dickensian network of reformatories and residential schools for poor, neglected, and abandoned children known as industrial schools.

The schools, which were financed and supervised by the government and managed largely by religious orders, mainly Roman Catholic, served about 30,000 children from the 1930s to the 1990s, according to a government report in 2009.

The films, making poignant use of interviews with victims, focused on the system in midcentury and presented a horrifying litany of torments the young people suffered at the schools: beatings, semistarvation, insufficient clothing, filthy living conditions, overwork, emotional abuse, and sexual assault.

Ms. Raftery was not the first to report on the abuse. In 1970, in what was known as the Kennedy Report, a government commission deplored the mistreatment and recommended that the schools be closed. (Some of the more egregious ones were.)

Later, memoirs like “The God Squad’’ by Paddy Doyle and “Fear of the Collar’’ by Patrick Touher, as well as “Dear Daughter,’’ a television documentary about a woman named Christine Buckley, all bore vivid witness to the savagery visited upon children by the school authorities, including priests and nuns. In 1998, the Christian Brothers, a Catholic order that ran many of the most notorious schools in Ireland, issued a public apology to those who had been abused in their care.

The widely seen “States of Fear’’ was not only painstakingly researched but also comprehensive, making the powerful case that the abuse had been widespread and systemic.

“What television can do, if you get it right, is it can concentrate and focus a story at a particular time, and make people face it and make people furious,’’ Ms. Raftery said in a television interview in 2010. “So it was a question of constructing a series of programs that wouldn’t allow people to go back into denial again, in other words that the body of evidence would be so overwhelming that it could not be denied anymore.’’

Ms. Raftery and a coauthor, Eoin O’Sullivan, followed the series with a book-length adaptation of the material, “Suffer the Little Children: The Inside Story of Ireland’s Industrial Schools.’’

The documentary series and the public outcry it engendered prompted Prime Minister Bertie Ahern to apologize publicly.

His government also established the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, which released a withering report in 2009, describing the schools’ treatment of young people in agonizing detail. Thousands of victims received compensation, though the report was criticized by victims’ advocates for not naming the abusers.

After “States of Fear,’’ Ms. Raftery further jolted Irish society with investigative programs like “Cardinal Secrets,’’ about the sexual abuse of children in the Dublin Archdiocese, and “Behind the Walls,’’ about Ireland’s psychiatric hospitals and the large number of people committed there by their families.

Ms. Raftery leaves her husband, a son, two brothers, and a sister.

Tuesday January 10 2012

JOURNALIST and documentary maker Mary Raftery passed away today following an illness.

Ms Raftery (54) was best known as the producer and director of the States of Fear series that revealed the extent of physical and sexual abuse suffered by children in the Irish childcare system.

It was credited with sparking several investigations into religious orders.

She is survived by her husband David Waddell and their son Ben.

RTE Director General Noel Curran said:

“Mary Raftery’s journalism was defined by determination and fearlessness. Her record in broadcasting is extraordinary… She has left an important legacy for Irish society.”

Mary Raftery -Magdalene Laundries

Some Random replies in my twitter messages.

Andrew Madden
andrewmmadden Andrew Madden

@
@MarieTherese39 thanks Marie ..,
Paddy Doyle
MrPaddyDoyle Paddy Doyle

@
@MarieTherese39 The truth is that the ‘heads’ in RTE never wanted ‘States of Fear’ to be shown. Mary’s determination won out thankfully.
Leo Forde
LeoForde Leo Forde

@
@MarieTherese39 prob because it was run/controlled by religious loons. She was some lady to rail against it all. #MaryRaftery
Paddy Doyle
MrPaddyDoyle Paddy Doyle

@
@MarieTherese39 The service was beautiful, I’m sure everyone shed a tear at some stage during it. I know I did.
Paddy Doyle
MrPaddyDoyle Paddy Doyle

@
@MarieTherese39 A lesser person would have ‘thrown in the towel’ Mary was determined that “States of Fear’ would be shown.
Andrew Madden
andrewmmadden Andrew Madden
@
@MarieTherese39 Hi Marie, I don’t know why that won’t work for you, I have all permissions turned on as far as I can see .. sorry about that

Farewell Mary Raftery R.I.P. from survivors of institutional child abuse

Farewell to Mary Raftery R.I.P.. Family, friends and colleagues of Journalist Mary Raftery packed the 17th-century Great Hall in the Royal Hospital in Kilmainham for a poignant humanist service peppered with humour and emotion. Tributes were paid to the woman responsible for some of the most powerful and influential broadcasts on RTE television.

Forever Young

May God? bless and keep you always

May your wishes all come true
May you always do for others
And let others do for you
May you build a ladder to the stars
And climb on every rung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.
May you grow up to be righteous
May you grow up to be true
May you always know the truth
And see the lights surrounding you
May you always be courageous
Stand upright and be strong
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.
May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
May your heart always be joyful
And may your song always be sung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.

Isn’t it just something else to see some “Women of Ireland”, or “Mná na hÉireann” carrying the humble Humanist wicker coffin?!

H/t Paddy Doyle (Photos: Irish Independent Galleries)

More info pertaining to Mary Raftery R.I.P. can be seen here at Paddy’s very informative blog.

Gosh, I saw Mary at a distance only a short while ago in O’Connell St. I inwardly contemplated approaching her to say hello. However, I decided against what I thought at the time might have be my better judgement thus resultantly deciding it would be an intrusion into her privacy. I had noticed that she looked very bloated then and for quite some time of late when I had seen her in the media. Was it… I pondered to myself… perhaps due to medication? Now in hindsight methinks her unknown illness was in fact the root cause, or rather the medication for her being bloated. I’m raging now that I followed my better nature at the time. I seem to have always only seen Mary from a distance. The main one that will always stay with me forever is the time of the first meeting of the commission to inquire into institutional child abuse. I saw Mary in the foyer of the hotel. She was in deep conversation with Bernadette Fahy.

Thank you, Mary. Survivors of industrial *schools* and clerical child abuse are deeply indebted to you for making their voices heard. You listened to their lonely voices as they cried out in the wilderness and you did something about their longstanding anguish. You stood up against the rigours of the church; the political and Irish broadcasting establishments and let it be known that you were not going to take any nonsense, even to the point that it sadly made you (and your colleague) very ill. You won out in the end, despite everything. As Irish history will be kind to you Mary (as indeed it will be to survivors of industrial *schools* and child clerical abuse). From the bottom of our ruined and painful hearts we thank you for your strong support of our cause.
Suffer the Little Children – The Inside Story of Ireland’s Industrial Schools makes horrifying reading. It is an account of the systematic abuse of underprivileged children incarcerated in Ireland’s industrial school system from the foundation of the State to the mid-1970s.
See: also Ophelia Benson at butterfliesandwheels.org. She has been covering child institutional and clerical abuse… some examples are here and here… for years on end (and most recently at her new freethought syndicated blog here.)  Even when it wasn’t the most popular thing to do. Thank you, Ophelia.
I also found following stuff here and here on industrial schools that is very interesting.
Andrew Madden http://andrewmmadden.blogspot.com/ author of Altar Boy, A Story Of Life After Abuse. who was at the funeral service also paid tribute to Mary. He has very powerfully emotional memories of her as he had deep media involvements with her in the making of Cardinal Secrets.

I wish to express my deep sadness today on hearing of the death of Mary Raftery. Mary was instrumental in helping many of us as we sought to expose the truth about what the Catholic Church and others knew about the sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests in Ireland. Mary understood that the Catholic Church’s concealment of the sexual abuse of children was systemic but that it could best be exposed by helping survivors share personal experience and through her work provided a way for some of us to do that… Read the rest here

  Tom Hayes, of alliancesupport.org and a survivor of an industrial *school* has also got media coverage on Mary Raftery. There is also included in his sidebar an Irish Independent article on the docu-drama which I commented on last year at B&W.

Marie-Thérèse O’ Loughlin

Yeah, titti, some of the ten thousand children fleeing from the Nazi regime were given foster homes in England and Northern Ireland. Many of them who went to the North were looked after by foster parents but others went to the Millisle Refugee Farm (Magill’s Farm, on the Woburn Road) which took refugees from May 1938 until its closure in 1948.

DeValera took in approximately 148 children – there is a tree in Jerusalem thanking him for his good work for refugees in general.

Have you heard about the new docu-drama play No Escape that Mary Raftery has momentarily on at the Abbey Theatre in Dublin? I believe actors are having to receive counselling in the aftermath – because of the stress levels. The play is based solely on the Ryan/Laffoy Report. Nobody under sixteen is allowed – which is daft really as the stories are about children. But then in saying this again – if actors are not cushioned against the contents of the play – how would one expect children from ordinary sheltered loving homes to be  either.

Cover Up! Cover Up! Cover Up! Cover Up!
Mary Raftery – A Tribute from Colm O’Gorman of Irish International Amnesty, who also attended the funeral:

Like many others who were lucky enough to have known or worked with Mary Raferty, I was deeply saddened to hear of her death yesterday, January 10th. Mary’s passing is a loss to us all, but most especially of course to her husband, her son and wider family who are very much in my thoughts. The following is a tribute to Mary I wrote for the Irish Independent. I never once came away from a conversation with Mary Raftery without learning something. She had an incredible mind; an extraordinary ability to absorb and store information combined with a gift for insight and… [Read more] Posted by COLM Wednesday, 11th January 2012 @ 10:39

Mary Raftery’s son Ben attending the funeral of his Mother Journalist Mary Raftery at the Royal Hospital Kilmainham. Credit: Steve Humphreys Date: January 13, 2012

brianmlucey brian lucey“@dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/a6DGmTVj via @the_irish_times” Sorry to hear this. A great great journo.
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 29 similar tweets

maglaundries JusticeforMagdalenesRIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries:http://t.co/iocopYw5
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 12 similar tweets

tellydubby Helen O’Rahilly InfluentialThe brilliant Irish journalist, Mary Raftery, who exposed clerical abuse, dies. RIP. RT@IrishTimes http://t.co/ctlIYbfU
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 9 similar tweets

fmacconghail Fiach Mac ConghailSo sorry to hear this. An extraordinary person RT @dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/W626aRks via@the_irish_times
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 7 similar tweets

mediabite Miriam Cotton InfluentialHeartbroken about Mary Raftery. If we had just five more as courageous, the country would be transformedhttp://t.co/jr9Q3hbO
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 6 similar tweets

sineadgleeson Sinead Gleeson InfluentialTerribly sad news about the death of Mary Raftery. A pioneering journalist & programme maker who made a big difference
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 6 similar tweets

stephenkinsella Stephen Kinsella InfluentialReally sad to read about Mary Raftery’s passing. She did the victims of clerical abuse an immense service
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 5 similar tweets

niallstanage Niall StanageMy US pals won’t know who Mary Raftery is; their loss. A journalist who did her state, and the truth, some service
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 5 similar tweets

annbrien Ann BrienThis line is a fitting tribute to Mary Raftery. RIP “outstanding contribution in the area of human rights and justice”http://t.co/qQc5hdKf
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 4 similar tweets

jillianvt Jillian van TurnhoutI am so sad to hear that outstanding Mary Raftery has died. May she rest in peace. http://t.co/T93P0eam via@the_irish_times
6 days ago Reply Retweet Favorite 3 similar tweets

tmcarew Tom CarewA courageous, balanced, admirable journalist – Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/qi1oa2Sa via @the_irish_times

damondelgawundr Damon DelgadoJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/3TABczh7

friedaklotz FriedaKlotzMy US pals won’t know who Mary Raftery is; their loss. A journalist who did her state, and the truth, some service

nosilanagerdink Alison KindreganMary Raftery, RIP. A determined & fearless journalist with a passion for social justice, she will be missed

callande Elizabeth KilroyMary Raftery, RIP. A determined & fearless journalist with a passion for social justice, she will be missed

lohart_lass Geri FloriJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/tQpopfXW via @the_irish_times

jamescsn James Cussenhttp://t.co/Mq8oY3CN – confirmation

oceanmude CSilvaJournalist Mary Raftery dies – RIP & thanks for being here a while – hope some others learned somethinghttp://t.co/LdID8UgR

theravenxx The RavenHeartbroken about Mary Raftery. If we had just five more as courageous, the country would be transformedhttp://t.co/jr9Q3hbO

permagoddess Bealtaine CottageA True Journalist, one of few…Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/cyZ5Nzld via @the_irish_times

elohi_unitsi Earth MotherRIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/iocopYw5

eoind JK-eoindJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/vvBGQnZ5 via @the_irish_times

marietherese39 Marie T O’Loughlin R.I.P. #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/iocopYw5

canisgallicus Michelle ClarkeJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/mA9Www1w via @the_irish_times Such a loss; a dedicated journalist for abused & vulnerable children

marietherese39 Marie T O’LoughlinSo sad… “Journalist Mary Raftery dies” http://t.co/IBRc50ls – Will always cherish meeting her, a truly splendid human being, full of soul.

marietherese39 Marie T O’Loughlin Mary Raftery R.I.P. – somebody who made a difference http://t.co/8d7fR1UL

marietherese39 Marie T O’LoughlinHeartbroken about Mary Raftery. If we had just five more as courageous, the country would be transformed http://t.co/jr9Q3hbO

andrewsb49 Andrew BrennanHeartbroken about Mary Raftery. If we had just five more as courageous, the country would be transformed http://t.co/jr9Q3hbO

endadoherty Enda Dohertyhttp://t.co/du9NGxa2 RIP

theobituaries The ObituariesInfluentialJournalist Mary Raftery dies – Irish Times http://t.co/jp6llIqy

shadowboxire Shadowbox Theatre RIP Mary Raftery http://t.co/oBsNcuxm via @the_irish_times

pinnacle24_7 Pinnacle MaintenanceJournalist Mary Raftery dies – The Irish Times http://t.co/Xy6gTYj9 #ireland #society #history

johnoconnordit John O’Connor“@dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/a6DGmTVj via @the_irish_times” Sorry to hear this. A great great journo.

wildrover1916 Jay DoolingJournalist Mary Raftery dies – The Irish Times – Tue, Jan 10, 2012 | #Irish #Ireland #IrishAires | http://t.co/9GY2SHdB via @addthis

flannlmacgowan O’MalleyA great woman died today. RIP Mary Raftery http://t.co/jwxg5Ph1

ballykissane Belinda EvangelistaWomen’s History Association of Ireland (WHAI) Mary’s work in exposing the High Park, Drumcondra Magdalene… http://t.co/ucVbMwzi

shawa330 Shannon Watterson”The most important thing you can do is to give a voice to people who have been silenced.” http://t.co/A8sLB9N7 @the_irish_times

majwal7 Mark WallJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/PBp1GchZ via @the_irish_times

mwwaterford Micheál WalshRIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/iocopYw5

irisheyesjg JenniferGeraghtyJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/XBMug8jc via @the_irish_times

nyoitweets NYOIKnown as a fearless and passionate journalist, Mary Raftery was also a cellist in the National Youth Orchestra of… http://t.co/mDpGcFTv

sadie_campbell Sarah CampbellJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/UTcLloER via @the_irish_times

thesliverparty John O’DwyerInfluentialRT @maglaundries RIP #MaryRaftery. We’ve lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s indust. school & #magdalenelaundries http://t.co/oXmE0ml6

fauxclaud Claudia C D’Arcyhttp://t.co/wBlgiORp http://t.co/fG0nHSDt

alan_199 Alan199RIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/iocopYw5

alan_199 Alan199RIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/MWjMe66r

marytcon Mary ConnollyRIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/iocopYw5

thegrem69 RGMRIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/iocopYw5

kencurtin Ken CurtinRIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/iocopYw5

chrisincork Christine AllenRIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/iocopYw5

culchiewoman Mari SteedRIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/MWjMe66r

ballykissane Belinda EvangelistaJournalist Mary Raftery dies – The Irish Times – Tue, Jan 10, 2012 http://t.co/yEWZB0LI

maglaundries JusticeforMagdalenesRIP #MaryRaftery. We have lost a true pioneer in exposing Ireland’s industrial school and #magdalenelaundries: http://t.co/iocopYw5

aoifep Aoife PorterVery sad she was so young, inspiring human being RT @MaireSligo: Mary Raftery RIP – somebody who made a difference http://t.co/cJqPXfkw

tallatrialogue Tallaght TrialogueThe death has taken place in Dublin of renowned journalist and broadcaster Mary Raftery. She died at St… http://t.co/1zlM8R1D

bernadinec Bernadine CarraherMy US pals won’t know who Mary Raftery is; their loss. A journalist who did her state, and the truth, some service. http://t.co/dPDfV4NQ

gerrymckeever gerry mckeeverI’m so very saddened at the death of journalist Mary Raftery. A true loss to a nation. http://t.co/w9yN7l7R from @the_irish_times

andrewsb49 Andrew BrennanMary Raftery RIP – somebody who made a difference http://t.co/8d7fR1UL

andrewsb49 Andrew BrennanJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/mjjF1qqS via @the_irish_times

peter_obrien Peter O’BrienSo sorry to hear this. An extraordinary person RT @dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/W626aRks via @the_irish_times

bobgray71 Bob GrayR.I.P. Mary Raftery an outstanding & courageous Irish journalist who broke the silence on institutional child abuse http://t.co/Ic0MgJoA

colmogorman Colm O’GormanHeartbroken about Mary Raftery. If we had just five more as courageous, the country would be transformed http://t.co/jr9Q3hbO

childabusewatch Evin DalyJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/mjjF1qqS via @the_irish_times

mairesligo Máire GarveyMary Raftery RIP – somebody who made a difference http://t.co/8d7fR1UL

seeallherfaces Fran HannaSad to hear that Mary Raferty has died. Inspirational Lady. http://t.co/8DiwzXNx via @the_irish_times

theotriangle John MastersonHeartbroken about Mary Raftery. If we had just five more as courageous, the country would be transformed http://t.co/jr9Q3hbO

mediabite Miriam CottonInfluentialHeartbroken about Mary Raftery. If we had just five more as courageous, the country would be transformed http://t.co/jr9Q3hbO

7worldscollide Orla MurphyMy US pals won’t know who Mary Raftery is; their loss. A journalist who did her state, and the truth, some service. http://t.co/dPDfV4NQ

skysketcher Deirdre KelleghanJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/UTcLloER via @the_irish_times

cafoleary Cormac O’LearyJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/UTcLloER via @the_irish_times

colmogorman Colm O’GormanJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/UTcLloER via @the_irish_times

265lisa Lisa CreamerJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/dxq7LbTC via @the_irish_times

pvaldev87 Paul-Valette DevineJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/1GJdplRo via @the_irish_times

amphitrit AmphitriteRTE Journalist Mary Raftery dies – The Irish Times – Tue, Jan 10, 2012 http://t.co/Nb5gcWPs

drturpin Cherie Ann TurpinRTE Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/WY57xkpG via @the_irish_times

jackphennessy WindSafetyI am so sad to hear that outstanding Mary Raftery has died. May she rest in peace. http://t.co/T93P0eam via @the_irish_times

freepressdublin J. P. AndersonJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/HxlwJrP4 via @the_irish_times

ocarrollconsult Niamh O’CarrollAn inspiring, brave woman RIP RT “@SheilaMcWade: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/ECa0mW6U via @the_irish_times”

lidafar Lida FarReally sad to read about Mary Raftery’s passing. She did the victims of clerical abuse an immense service. http://t.co/R20FLNEx

johnjoechad John FinucaneSo sad… “Journalist Mary Raftery dies” http://t.co/IBRc50ls – Will always cherish meeting her, a truly splendid human being, full of soul.

andrewsb49 Andrew Brennan My US pals won’t know who Mary Raftery is; their loss. A journalist who did her state, and the truth, some service. http://t.co/dPDfV4NQ

andrewsb49 Andrew Brennan So sad… “Journalist Mary Raftery dies” http://t.co/IBRc50ls – Will always cherish meeting her, a truly splendid human being, full of soul.

bokkenpootjes Patrick DodgeIrish Journalist, Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/oS7d89HS via @the_irish_times – Our thoughts and prayers are with her family at this time

janinel83 Janine LouloudiSo sad… “Journalist Mary Raftery dies” http://t.co/IBRc50ls – Will always cherish meeting her, a truly splendid human being, full of soul.

jdwex J DMy US pals won’t know who Mary Raftery is; their loss. A journalist who did her state, and the truth, some service. http://t.co/dPDfV4NQ

niallstanage Niall StanageMy US pals won’t know who Mary Raftery is; their loss. A journalist who did her state, and the truth, some service. http://t.co/dPDfV4NQ

positivework Desmond O’DowdJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/GBqg0Cjw via @the_irish_times

glohlopes Glória LopesJournalist Mary Raftery dies – RIP & thanks for being here a while – hope some others learned something http://t.co/LdID8UgR

sheilamcwade Sheila McWadeJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/dxq7LbTC via @the_irish_times

donal_okeeffe Donal O’KeeffeThis is awful news. A terrible loss. “Journalist Mary Raftery dies” http://t.co/JQHQt0nW via @the_irish_times

jenniquatro JenniQuatroSo sad to hear of the death of Mary Raftery, Ireland’s most important journalist, today. http://t.co/MLKbF71a

karl_tooher Karl TooherI’m so very saddened at the death of journalist Mary Raftery. A true loss to a nation. http://t.co/w9yN7l7R from @the_irish_times

corkfeminista Cork FeministaRIP Mary Rafferty…. her recent documentary ‘Behind the Walls’ is still implanted on my mind http://t.co/iaVOVJVD

paviliontheatre Pavilion TheatreWe are sorry to hear of the passing of renowned journalist and broadcaster Mary Raftery. Her powerful… http://t.co/2wDJuE81

podsta PoddySo sorry to hear this. An extraordinary person RT @dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/W626aRks via @the_irish_times

thegrem69 RGMJournalist Mary Raftery dies – RIP & thanks for being here a while – hope some others learned something http://t.co/LdID8UgR

childrightsir lchildrensrights.ieÒur deepest sympathies to family and friends of journalist Mary Raftery RIP: http://t.co/yXmWfuZH via @the_irish_times

liamdeha lLiam de HalJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/Qggva2RW via @the_irish_times

farahabushwesha Farah AbushweshaVery sad to hear of the death this morning of pioneering journalist Mary Rafferty. An incredible woman. http://t.co/yqCzddP7

rachlaffo Rachel LaffertyJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/wTGKFB9T via @the_irish_times Such a loss!!!

abdelevan Amanda BrownVery sorry to hear of Mary Raferty’s passing. We need more like her. http://t.co/FoPKR5K4

irishfemnetwork IrishFeministNetworkVery sad to hear of the death this morning of pioneering journalist Mary Rafferty. An incredible woman. http://t.co/yqCzddP7

tallatrialogue Tallaght TrialogueReally sad to read about Mary Raftery’s passing. She did the victims of clerical abuse an immense service. http://t.co/R20FLNEx

claraenright Clara EnrightShe was class – what a contribution! Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/2DhgtdPE via @the_irish_times

ladynicci Nicola CassidySad news about Mary Raftery http://t.co/aFViGBoU”

orrcollins Rachel CollinsTerribly sad news about the death of Mary Raftery. A pioneering journalist & programme maker who made a big difference. http://t.co/fm3HrR5p

celizmurray C MurraySad news: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/KZU0cPC8 via @the_irish_times

valmullally Val Mullally MAIrish Journalist, Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/oS7d89HS via @the_irish_times – Our thoughts and prayers are with her family at this time

niamhsmith niamhsmithInfluentialSad news: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/KZU0cPC8 via @the_irish_times

oceanpr Ocean PRSaddened to hear about Mary Rafferty http://t.co/VA5eNvAr

buyandselldotie Buy & SellSo sorry to hear this. An extraordinary person RT @dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/W626aRks via @the_irish_times

kwatterson Keith WattersonTerribly sad news about the death of Mary Raftery. A pioneering journalist & programme maker who made a big difference. http://t.co/fm3HrR5p

laineyhughes Lainey HughesJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/HVq10xLz via @the_irish_times #RIP

crossemily Emily CrossReally sad to read about Mary Raftery’s passing. She did the victims of clerical abuse an immense service. http://t.co/R20FLNEx

womensmanifesto WomensManifestoSaddened to hear about Mary Raftery’s death. She was driven by passion and the truth when few else were. http://t.co/oWNLI8MY

freejournalism jennifer collinsTerribly sad news about the death of Mary Raftery. A pioneering journalist & programme maker who made a big difference. http://t.co/fm3HrR5p

mindferg Fergal BradyJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/hqWW2lvA via @the_irish_times

libertiespress Liberties PressReally sad to read about Mary Raftery’s passing. She did the victims of clerical abuse an immense service. http://t.co/R20FLNEx

deirdre_flynn deirdre flynnTerribly sad news about the death of Mary Raftery. A pioneering journalist & programme maker who made a big difference. http://t.co/fm3HrR5p

faduda Gerard CunninghamTerribly sad news about the death of Mary Raftery. A pioneering journalist & programme maker who made a big difference. http://t.co/fm3HrR5p

sineadgleeson Sinead GleesonInfluentialTerribly sad news about the death of Mary Raftery. A pioneering journalist & programme maker who made a big difference. http://t.co/fm3HrR5p

sharrrow SharrowRT @mannixflynn: Thank You Mary http://t.co/7N5dNd4c

sheamussweeney Sheamus SweeneyRT tragic loss for democracy- Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/AbTegyXi via @the_irish_times

paulageraghty Paula GeraghtyRT tragic loss for democracy- Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/AbTegyXi via @the_irish_times

clumperino Claire McCannJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/5KM4YMNK via @the_irish_times Very sad news, her work was important and fearless

abbeytheatre Abbey TheatreSo sorry to hear this. An extraordinary person RT @dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/W626aRks via @the_irish_times

conorspackmanConor Spackman’The death has taken place of….’ Not the first time I’ve seen that in the Irish Times. Why not just say she died? http://t.co/Cq72UeCy

dulchiewhelan david whelanJournalist Mary Raftery dies – a shining example to us all http://t.co/UAw3Lhey via @the_irish_times

justplaincarrie CarrieLiddySuch a loss to to Ireland! Larkin Award winning Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/YqjYAZV2

lisasaputo Lisa SaputoJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/YPmmb7qC via @the_irish_times – Very sad to hear about this, a wonderful journalist.

senjohnwhelan Senator John WhelanJournalist Mary Raftery dies – a shining example to us all http://t.co/UAw3Lhey via @the_irish_times

unajude Úna KavanaghThis line is a fitting tribute to Mary Raftery. RIP “outstanding contribution in the area of human rights and justice” http://t.co/qQc5hdKf

irishfoodguide Irish Food GuideIrish Journalist, Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/oS7d89HS via @the_irish_times – Our thoughts and prayers are with her family at this time

drmagennis Caroline MagennisJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/5KM4YMNK via @the_irish_times Very sad news, her work was important and fearless

rachel__rk Rachel RKThis line is a fitting tribute to Mary Raftery. RIP “outstanding contribution in the area of human rights and justice” http://t.co/qQc5hdKf

stephenkinsella Stephen KinsellaInfluentialReally sad to read about Mary Raftery’s passing. She did the victims of clerical abuse an immense service. http://t.co/R20FLNEx

maevemcg Maeve McGrathThis line is a fitting tribute to Mary Raftery. RIP “outstanding contribution in the area of human rights and justice” http://t.co/qQc5hdKf

ireenterprise IrishEnterpriseIrish Journalist, Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/oS7d89HS via @the_irish_times – Our thoughts and prayers are with her family at this time

farragher Louise FarragherJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/dGpSjSWM via @the_irish_times

funkygoddessirl Samantha kellyIrish Journalist, Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/oS7d89HS via @the_irish_times – Our thoughts and prayers are with her family at this time

irishlives IrishLivesRememberedIrish Journalist, Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/oS7d89HS via @the_irish_times – Our thoughts and prayers are with her family at this time

annbrien Ann BrienThis line is a fitting tribute to Mary Raftery. RIP “outstanding contribution in the area of human rights and justice” http://t.co/qQc5hdKf

scottdebuitleir Scott De BuitléirThe brilliant Irish journalist, Mary Raftery, who exposed clerical abuse, dies. RIP. RT@IrishTimes http://t.co/ctlIYbfU

mannixflynn Mannix FlynnHighly InfluentialThank You Mary http://t.co/az46G37c

juneshannon June ShannonSo sorry to hear this. An extraordinary person RT @dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/W626aRks via @the_irish_times

vaughanb vaughanbThe brilliant Irish journalist, Mary Raftery, who exposed clerical abuse, dies. RIP. RT@IrishTimes http://t.co/ctlIYbfU

heidiboots Ailish FarragherJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/dGpSjSWM via @the_irish_times

kikkiplanet Kikki PlanetSuch a loss to to Ireland! Larkin Award winning Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/YqjYAZV2

tellydubby Helen O’RahillyInfluentialThe brilliant Irish journalist, Mary Raftery, who exposed clerical abuse, dies. RIP. RT@IrishTimes http://t.co/ctlIYbfU

damianmorrissey Damian MorrisseyShe did her country some service: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/T3YWjrXj

absolutebog Fiona McGarryJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/wY3UfzZg via @the_irish_times

brianmlucey brian lucey“@dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/a6DGmTVj via @the_irish_times” Sorry to hear this. A great great journo.

oconnellbrian Brian O’ConnellSo sorry to hear this. An extraordinary person RT @dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/W626aRks via @the_irish_times

fmacconghai lFiach Mac ConghailSo sorry to hear this. An extraordinary person RT @dfarrell_ucd: Journalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/W626aRks via @the_irish_times

clonmelmarket Tara moriartyI am so sad to hear that outstanding Mary Raftery has died. May she rest in peace. http://t.co/T93P0eam via @the_irish_times

jillianvt Jillian van TurnhoutI am so sad to hear that outstanding Mary Raftery has died. May she rest in peace. http://t.co/T93P0eam via @the_irish_times

dfarrell_ucd david farrellJournalist Mary Raftery dies http://t.co/ei7Ny9JU via @the_irish_times

tupp_ed Simon McGarrInfluentialVery very sorry to hear of the death of Ireland’s best and bravest journalist, Mary Raftery. We will miss her. http://t.co/WTPyvEDp
Farewell to Mary Raftery:
Mary Raftery’s niece Isolde attending the funeral of Journalist Mary Raftery at the Royal Hospital Kilmainham yesterday. Pic Steve Humphreys 12th January 2012.
Credit: Steve HumphreysDate: January 13, 2012

Archives: RateYourSolicitor.com

  • From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}
 #151 2007-03-24 10:10:26 
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

€600m more now needed for child abuse awards.

The compensation bill for victims of child abuse is set to cost taxpayers over €1bn.

Education Minister Mary Hanafin revealed last night that the Residential Institutions Redress Board will require a further €600m in addition to the €564m it had already received.

She said the total estimated cost had now reached €1.16bn but the final bill would not be known until the board completed its work in three years’ time.

Last night Fine Gael education spokeswoman Olwyn Enright said the Government had denied for years that the scheme would cost €1bn.

“Now, when you look at the proportionality, effectively the taxpayer is going to cough up a billion.

The Government did a deal without knowing the liability – that’s why I think it’s a bad deal.”

The State is now set to pay more than 10 times the €128m the Catholic Church handed over as part of a deal reached in 2002.

Some 18 religious congregations which managed the orphanages and industrial schools paid the sum in return for an indemnity against future legal actions by former residents.

The State accepted it also had a responsibility by having placed the children in the Church’s care rather than choosing to look after them itself. Ms Enright said the State should not have capped the Church’s liability at €128m when it did not know what its final liability would be.

“I don’t blame only Michael Woods [former education minister] because Bertie knew about it as well.”

Since the board was set up in 2002, it has made payments to more than 7,000 people who suffered physical, sexual or mental abuse while attending state or church-run institutions.

However, it still has almost 7,000 more applications to process. Ms Hanafin told the Dail that the average award to date was about €70,000, with up to €300,000 paid out in some cases.

She said that of the €128m promised by the religious orders, the cash and counselling contributions of €51m had been received in full.

Another €66m in property transfers and €10.7m in lieu of property had also been agreed, and the balance of €160,000 was to be settled shortly.

Ms Hanafin said the value assigned to the church properties awaiting transfer was the value at the time of the agreement and not the current value. However, she was unable to provide Ms Enright with the valuation of 16 properties handed over to the Department of Education by the religious orders.

The Board suffered a setback last year with the death of its chairman Judge Sean O’Leary.

It received thousands of extra applications before its December 2005 deadline.

Another 166 applications have been received since the deadline passed, but the Board has the discretion to accept them if there are exceptional circumstances.

The most recent figures show the has made 5,256 offers so far to victims following settlement talks and 1,567 awards.By Geraldine Collins and Michael Brennan

Redress for abuse victims may cost €1.16bn.

Compensating the victims of child abuse in residential institutions could cost an estimated €1.16 billion, Minister for Education Mary Hanafin told the Dail.

Ms Hanafin said, however, that the revised estimate, like earlier estimates, was tentative as the Residential Institutions Redress Board had some 7,250 outstanding applications to process at the end of last year, and the level of awards in those remaining cases could vary substantially.

“The final cost of the scheme will not be known until the board has completed its work, which may take up to a further three years.” Ms Hanafin said that expenditure associated with the redress board, to the end of last year, was approximately €564 million.

At that time, 7,290 applications, out of a total of 14,540 received, were processed by the board.

She added that the average award to date was approximately €70,000, with awards ranging up to €300,000.

At this point, it was estimated that a provision of another €600 million might be required to meet the board’s remaining awards, administration and legal costs.

Ms Hanafin said that the Comptroller and Auditor General had stated that any estimate of the ultimate liability, arising from the redress scheme, was based on assumptions which were impossible to validate and should, therefore, be treated with caution.

The final cost of the scheme, said Ms Hanafin, must be viewed in the context of the Government’s acceptance of its responsibilities in apologising to victims of abuse and the substantial costs that would have been incurred had no such scheme been established, with cases processed in the normal manner through the courts.

“The scheme enables victims to obtain compensation for their injuries without having to face the trauma of pursuing their cases in court,” Ms Hanafin said.

Labour’s spokeswoman on education Jan O’Sullivan asked if the Minister believed the Government had been wrong to impose a cap on the responsibility of the religious orders, given the hugely escalated costs involved.

Ms Hanafin insisted that the State had a duty to make amends for the abuse of children placed in institutions.

“The State was involved in placing those children in institutions and, obviously, had a responsibility to make amends.

“Nonetheless, it was considered that the congregations should make a contribution towards that.”

By Michael O’Regan

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-03-24 10:13:57)

#152 2007-03-24 17:24:46 Setanta
From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Statement 13 LIES AND FALSE ALLEGATIONS OF CHILD ABUSE MADE BY CHILDREN FROM SAINT JOSEPH’S ORPHANAGE, KILKENNY CITY, IRELAND

All applications to the Residential Institutions Redress Board in Ireland are based on allegations. There is no requirement of proof.

Applicants who make false statements to the Board can say what they like about innocent people, get paid for it, and expect to get away with it.

There is no trial.

There is no pursuit by the Board of any of the perpetrators of any of the alleged crimes.

There is no pursuit by the Honorable Board against an applicant who lies while under Oath.

Unscrupulous applicants can commit perjury, and walk free having done so.

Secrecy prevails in the Redress Board. Secrecy breeds corruption, and secrecy causes mistrust and suspicion.

The Redress Board is causing unbelievable damages to innocent victims of false allegations of child sexual and physical abuse made against them by lying applicants to the Board.

Everyone involved with the Redress Board know all about the lies, the false statements, including the crooked Gardai (The Irish Police Force), Solicitors, Barristers and Judge O’Leary.

The money makes a big difference! But it will not save their souls.

Regards, Setanta

Last edited by Setanta (2007-09-22 08:27:49)

#153 2007-03-25 07:33:54 Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

STATE IN BREACH OF 21 OF THE 30 ARTICLES ON THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS 1949″ as follows.

The state, from 1949 to the present day was, and remains, in breach of Articles 1 to 13 (inclusive), 19,22,23,25,26,28,29 and 30.

When one reads the declaration it becomes very clear why. What is going to be done to rectify this situation for all of us unjustly treated?

ABUSE VICTIMS ARE ‘NOT CRIMINALS’

Having read the article “Sex abuse victims call for lifting of ‘crime slur'” by Henry McDonald, Sunday March 21, 2004, The Observer, I was appalled to discover that along with so many other survivors of the Industrial School System, I also (possibly) have a “Black Mark” still documented against me for being incarcerated at the age of 3 and I most certainly wish this to be wiped from all records.

To achieve this I have done some research and found that it is possible (legally) to do just that and that the authorities have no choice but to comply. However, my research seems to imply that only those survivors who were detained under Section 58 of the 1908 and 1922 Children Act (as amended) under the charge of “Improper Guardianship” will be in a position to insist on the lifting of this charge if they are still blighted by it today as follows.

Discharge of child committed to industrial school.
5.-(1) Where

(a) a child has been committed to an industrial school under Section 58 of the Principal act, and

(b) an application is made to the Minister for Education by a parent or guardian for the release of the child, and

(c) the Minister is satisfied that the circumstances which led to the making of the committal order have ceased and are not likely to recur if the child is released, and that the parent or guardian is able to support the child, the Minister shall order the discharge of the child.

(2) The Minister may, if he so thinks proper, refer the application to the court.

(3) If the Minister refuses the application, the parent or guardian may refer it to the court.

(4) The court, if satisfied in regard to the matters referred to in paragraph (c) of subsection (1), shall have jurisdiction to order the discharge of the child.

(5) A reference to the court under this section shall be made to the District Court in the District in which the committal order was made or, if the applicant resides in another District, in that District.

(6) The order for the discharge of the child, whether made by the Minister or the court, shall operate to revoke the detention order.

(7) (a) Where the District Court or, on appeal, the Circuit Court, orders the discharge of a child, the court may award costs and expenses to the successful applicant and the Minister shall defray out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas such sum as the court may certify in respect thereof.

(b) The costs and expenses which may be certified by the court shall not exceed the maximum amounts which may be awarded as between party and party in an action for tort in the District Court.

Sub Paragraph (6) above is particularly interesting when it says “The order for the discharge of the child, whether made by the Minister or the court, shall operate to revoke the detention order”.

In other words, if one reads the definition of the word “revoke”, one would be as surprised as I was to read, annul by recalling or rescinding, countermand, lift, overturn, renege, repeal, rescind, reverse, vacate, cancel, error, fault, go back on, mistake.

It is as if to say that nothing happened at all and if that is the definition as is the case, backtracking through events that led up to that point has the same result, which is that the charge of “improper guardianship” should never have been brought against children incapable of properly mounting a defence, let alone fully understanding what was taking place.

Indeed, most of you will find that the authorities were approached by family members for assistance who, only when there was no family members present, brought these charges against you fully knowing that it was wrong, indeed illegal, since, having agreed to help in the support of families in need (by taking you into their care) ultimately became the legal guardian and that being the case renders the authorities at the time at fault in bringing false charges against children who could not possible resist, a bit like charging your own children with an offence, ludicrous don’t you think?

I am in possession of a document, which shows that asking the authorities for assistance is just what happened in my case by my Grandmother and, as you, myself being in possession of a copy of the District Court Order which sent me to 2 of these institutions am not at all happy that I as a 3 year old at the time, now (possibly) have a criminal record. I am now calling on the relevant Minister to “Blanket Cancel” these charges for everyone where Section 58 is concerned forthwith if justice is to be seen to be done, at least on this issue.

Also, for those who do not fall into the Section 58 category, I say that they too were in all probability dubiously convicted in so far as a fair hearing with proper defence is concerned. Ask for a copy of the transcript of the hearing if in doubt.

As to Section 35 of the Redress Act 2002.

Having read it several times I find that it is somewhat circular (like a ring) in its wording and seems to start off by removing disqualification and other restriction only to insert it right back in again by its reference to a “conviction for an offence”  have the authorities not already deemed “improper guardianship” as an offence in taking children to the District Courts in the first place. Section 35 is non-committal in categorically saying that no offence exists as can be seen.

Criminal records. 35. — For the avoidance of doubt, a person who was detained in an industrial school pursuant to the Children Act, 1908, other than a person who was so detained as a consequence of a conviction of a conviction for an offence, shall not be subject to any disqualification or any other restriction that is a consequence of a conviction for an offence.

If you read the above several times you will soon see the ring effect and that the restrictions and disqualifications are still there by the reference to “an offence”. The words “separate offence” should have been included. Perhaps an amendment to the Act, Sect 35, would clarify the situation.

It is my hope for myself and all survivors that the powers that be will instil a belief in all of us that the apologies of several high profile Ministers and Clergy were uttered in good faith and that they will ultimately do the right thing now in order to finally put the past behind us with confidence in their sincerity.

Martin John Joseph Petty-O’Callaghan, Bradford, West Yorkshire, England

Last Updated: Tuesday, May 31, 2005

In reply to letter to Irish Times dated 08/03/04 by T P Walsh.

Having been an inmate of these institutions (2) and then looking back at the Infrastructure in place on the scale it was it seems to me that Ireland through neglect missed out on what would have been the best Education System in the world for underprivileged children had the state only kept in check the violence and abuse allowed to manifest itself and then to take hold for decades.

Anyone who attended these institutions would only have to look around them (as I did) to see that the potential for excellence in all manner of interests was nothing short of magnificent, but like a poison, the minority nasty ladies and gentlemen – Nuns and Brothers etc were allowed to destroy what would have been the Saviour of many a wretched poor soul, transforming the same into a valuable member of Irish Society and in himself/herself proud to have been saved by the Industrial School System.

Instead Ireland is now having to admit that it failed thousands of innocent people who’s only crime was poverty, hunger and abandonment at such a young age.

I can tell you all now that I consider the Industrial School System a great tragedy for not only the children abused but for Ireland as a whole.

One only had to be in Artane, and many were who could testify to the vastness of the place and in hindsight see the potential it might have had if the abuses not been allowed to destroy the little good these places did.

Does anyone ever remember the Actor and Singer “Burl Ives” giving a concert at Artane? I well remember it and enjoyed it immensely, I sometimes wonder what would have happened had he witnessed anything nasty while he was at Artane, but of course great care would have been taken to ensure that nothing happened while he was there, that was why it took so many years for the truth to surface about these places.

Yes these Schools were indeed a heaven-sent opportunity back in the days when the idea first surfaced and should have been the saviour of many a young soul, but through ignorance and or incompetence by the powers that be, the minority were permitted to vent their own frustrations on the young for years undetected.

As a victim of this very treatment myself I believe I am well placed to voice an opinion as to the value of the concept of the Industrial School and I say it was nothing short of brilliant at the outset but allowed to grow a very bad tumor which just festered and destroyed the whole.

So for me it is most definitely hats off to the original founders and shame on the minority who destroyed a concept Ireland would (in hindsight) have been proud of today.

Martin, England

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-03-25 07:44:45)

 #154 2007-03-25 07:35:04
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

€370,000 award may see abuse victims bypass redress scheme

Hundreds of sexual abuse victims are likely to bypass the Government’s redress scheme to pursue their cases in the courts after the High Court awarded €370,000 to a man who was abused at a Kilkenny industrial school, write Arthur Beesley and Liam Reid.

The award to Raymond Noctor (45), of Leinster Crescent, Carlow, was the highest made to a victim of institutional abuse, and was almost €300,000 more than the average award of €77,000 made by the Residential Institutions Redress Board.

Only 12 of the 2,500 awards so far made by the board were in the €200,000 to €300,000 range.

The award to Mr Noctor came as the Dail Committee of Public Accounts finalised a report, to be published tomorrow, which is likely to criticise the manner in which the Government negotiated the 2002 deal that indemnified religious orders against abuse claims.

The One in Four agency, which helps abuse victims, said the scale of Mr Noctor’s award would encourage victims of sexual abuse to go to the High Court instead of the redress board.

The agency’s director, Colm O’Gorman, said: “I think what you’ll see is that where there’s a sense that a case can be taken to the High Court, people will do so rather than going to the redress board.

“What’s particularly significant is the level of the damages awarded at €370,000. It’s beyond the upper end that could be possibly paid within the redress scheme. But even more significantly, it’s massively above and beyond the average awards from that scheme.”

Mr Noctor was sent to St Joseph’s Industrial School, Kilkenny, over 30 years ago. He gave evidence of being sexually abused by care worker David Murray. He was also beaten by Murray.

Mr Noctor said in a statement that the actions of the State and the Sisters of Charity in trenchantly denying the validity of his claim over many years “heaped insult on top of injury”.

The Sisters of Charity said they acknowledged that Mr Noctor was abused by Murray, and were sincerely sorry for the hurt and suffering he endured.

Solicitor Michael Lanigan, a leading representative of abuse victims, said people who suffered sexual abuse in institutions were now likely to consider taking their cases to the High Court if the redress board had not dealt with their cases.

“This case is very significant; the general damages awarded are very high, and include compensation for breach of constitutional rights which cannot be taken into account by the redress board.”

Because of the State’s indemnity deal with the religious orders, the entire compensation payment and legal costs in any successful High Court cases will have to be met by the State.

02.03.2005 © The Irish Times

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-03-25 08:16:31)

 #155 2007-03-26 04:49:13
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Referendum on children’s rights unlikely to be held before election.

It is unlikely that there will be a referendum on the rights of children before the general election, the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice has said.

At the One Family conference at the weekend on the impact of divorce on children, Michael McDowell also said it was not always practicable for children to have separate legal representation in family law cases, and their best interests could not always be held supreme in disputed custody cases.

On separate representation for children, he said it was an “attractive proposition”.

“The question is who decides who should represent the child? What values and prejudices will they bring to the the table?

The choice of who represents the child would be a choice about what the arguments were and whoever made the choice would be adding their voice to the mix.”

He referred also to the proposition that the best interests of the child should always be the decisive factor.

“If those interests come into conflict with the rights of a parent or the assertion of those rights is asserted by an interested party … it’s not that easy when we look at what it all actually means in practice.

“So it doesn’t look likely there will be a children’s rights constitutional referendum before the election, whenever that may be, and we will have to look carefully at some of these issues before we proceed.”

There was speculation late last year, when the Taoiseach announced his intention to hold a referendum on the rights of children, that it would be held before the general election; some said it was likely to be this month.

Mr McDowell said that society had a “fundamental interest in backing up a coherent and stable existence for the child”.

However, society should not “glibly assume there’s a simple solution”.

By Kitty Holland #156 2007-03-27 05:08:39\

Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Education Department fighting 250 court cases.

The Department of Education has revealed that it is involved in 250 cases before the courts.

Education Minister Mary Hanafin said the cases included litigation relating to primary, community and comprehensive schools.

The cases also relate to child detention schools, special educational needs, school non-attendance, school transport, litigation arising from industrial relations actions, contractual disputes and what she called a “diverse range of matters in the education sector”.

The minister made the statement in response to a question asked during a Dail debate last Thursday by Fine Gael Deputy Pat Breen.

Ms Hanafin also stressed that these cases were separate from the 661 child abuse cases relating to industrial and reformatory schools and residential institutions.

The number of court cases was revealed in the same week that the High Court decided not to order the State to provide a six-year-old autistic boy with the education demanded by his parents.

Sean O’Cuanachain’s family wanted the court to force the State to provide him with 30 hours a week of tuition called Applied Behavioural Analysis.

Fine Gael spokeswoman on education Olwyn Enright said that the figure of 250 cases “did seem quite high”.

“It is testament to the fact that families feel that the only way they can get the care for their child is to go to court,” she said.

“Day in, day out, I am meeting lots of families who can’t access what they need for their child and do not have anywhere to turn.”

She said it was possible that some litigation cases were for instances such as children falling in the school yard, an occurrence which could lead to an action being taken against the school’s board of management and the department.

However, she said other cases could relate to issues such as the school transport catchment boundaries, which have not been updated since 1968.

The All-Party Oireachtas Committee on Education recently received submissions from schools and parents keen to have the boundaries redrawn, and Ms Enright said “at least 50 or 60 submissions” were received.

However, consultants are unlikely to be appointed to look at the issue until after the next Dail convenes in the aftermath of the General Election. By Noel Baker

We should all fear State that turns against its most vulnerable citizens.

In a democracy there is no uglier spectacle than the power of the State being used against its own citizens.

In fact it’s not even compatible with the notion of democracy.

Only totalitarian states operate as if the interests of the state were more important than the needs of the people. Of course, in any democracy, the State is often involved in making choices, and frequently difficult ones.

The common good demands that the State gets involved in arbitrating or mediating between different interests, and that always involves winners and losers.

In a democracy, the winners will often, though not always, be the more vulnerable.

In a totalitarian state, the powerful will always win. We have seen two examples in the past week where the power and influence of our State was deployed to make sure vulnerable people lost.

In one situation, people who have been sexually abused by teachers have been denied any form of redress by the State and threatened with financial ruin if they seek to take a case.

In the other, families of autistic children have been told that a State which has historically under-provided for their children’s needs still knows best and will allocate only what the State considers appropriate.

Every teacher is a public servant. Their salaries are paid by the State; their conditions of employment are set by the State.

It is not possible to pay a teacher more or less, or treat a teacher better or worse, than in the conditions laid down by the State.

But much more important than that, every teacher provides a public service, perhaps the most important and long-lasting public service there is.

They don’t save lives, of course, but they form them. For better or worse they influence the course of young people’s lives, often forever.

A good teacher will often be counted among the most important influences that most of us can remember. They do all this on behalf of the State.

The investment made by the State in education is critical to the development of a society and an economy.

Decisions made by the State over generations in relation to education are among the most formative and influential possible – in years to come, for instance, historians will trace the foundations of the Celtic Tiger right back to the decision to introduce free second-level education.

But a bad teacher can destroy lives.

A teacher who uses the authority and control their position gives them to abuse children can, and does, leave scars that never heal.

The man who abused Louise O’Keeffe in Dunderrow National School, near Kinsale, was a public servant employed for the specific purpose of helping to shape her young life and equip her for the future.

His name was Leo Hickey, not just any teacher, but the principal of the school. And the State has no responsibility for this public servant.

The State has argued successfully in the courts that it did not employ Hickey and cannot be regarded as liable for the actions that devastated the lives of Louise O’Keeffe and others.

Instead, Hickey was hired by the local school, through whatever structure was in place at the time. The courts may be prepared to accept this legal technicality, but it is a fiction.

Anyone who is involved in a school board, at whatever level, knows it is not possible to buy a pencil for the school, never mind hire a teacher, without ultimately accounting to the State for it.

Every penny spent by a school must be reported annually and nothing of any substance can be spent without the permission of the State.

But then, having won its case against Louise O’Keeffe, having established in the eyes of the law that it was not liable to her, the State set about punishing her for daring to suggest it had some responsibility for the terrible things a public servant had done to her.

The State is now pursuing her for costs amounting to €500,000 and has threatened every individual it knows who has been similarly abused that they, too, will be punished if they seek redress.

This is the State that has apologised to people who have been abused in religious-run institutions largely funded and inspected by the State.

This is the State that has insisted on paying the lion’s share of the necessary redress to the people who were abused because, in the Taoiseach’s words, the State didn’t want to bankrupt the religious orders.

This is the State that has failed to take any action against politicians who have defrauded taxpayers of millions and broken half a dozen laws. This is the State that has paid out tens of millions to soldiers who have lost hearing as a result of their employment.

This is the State that has wasted hundreds of millions on vanity capital projects.

The State may have law on its side in the case of Louise O’Keeffe and other people who have suffered gross abuse at the hands of public servants, but there is no justice in this action, and no morality.

The State may not care about people who have been abused in school, but it still knows best about how to meet the needs of its most vulnerable citizens.

So it has argued, successfully, in the courts against the family of Sean O’Cuanachain. Sean is six, and has autism.

If the State is awarded costs in this case and pursues them, his parents’ search for a proper education for their son may cost them their home. I’m not going to go into the rights and wrongs of different forms of education for autistic children here.

The one thing that is absolutely indisputable about the development of young people with autism is this: early intervention is essential, and education must be intensive and geared to their specific individual needs.

If that doesn’t happen, the prospect of good development is hugely diminished. And it didn’t happen, and won’t happen, in Sean’s case because the State has decided it doesn’t want to guarantee it. The State knows best what’s good for Sean.

It doesn’t matter that in our constitution, the State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the family.

All that means, it seems, is that families can provide whatever education they can afford themselves.

If they believe they can rely on the State to listen to them about their children’s needs, they should forget it.

It might tell you in the constitution that you know best what your child needs, but that’s tough. The State will decide what’s appropriate. Many families of young people with autism were hoping this time it would be different.

But the very fact that the State was prepared to drag this family through 68 days in the High Court should have told us all we need to know.

The State has argued in the past that its responsibility for education should only extend to those whom the State regards as educable.

Clearly, that mindset has not changed. We need to be angry. But the behaviour and mindset behind these cases should make us more than angry. We should be afraid of a State that acts this way.

By Fergus Finlay

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-03-27 05:16:56)

157 2007-03-27 05:29:26
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Ferns abuse victims face pay-out delay  March 27, 2007

By Caroline O’Doherty

VICTIMS of clerical child sex abuse in the Diocese of Ferns could face delays in receiving compensation because of a dispute between the diocese and the Government over legal fees.

The diocese owes €2.7 million to lawyers for representation during two abuse inquiries, the initial Birmingham Investigation and the follow-up Ferns Inquiry, chaired by Judge Frank Murphy who concluded it should be reimbursed its legal costs.

A year after submitting its bill to the Department of Health and Children, however, no money has been paid, and administrators have been trying to secure a meeting with the minister to seek an explanation for the delay.

In a tersely worded statement issued to the Irish Examiner, however, the department says no promises were ever made that legal costs would be paid.

“In co-operating with a non-statutory inquiry into a substantial number of allegations of child sexual abuse against clerics of the Catholic Diocese of Ferns, the diocese availed of legal representation and incurred legal costs,” the statement reads.

“The Government has not given any commitment to the diocese in respect of assisting it with its legal costs.”

It goes on to say that the Attorney General has been consulted and a definitive response would be made to the diocese “within the coming weeks”.

Diocesan secretary Fr John Carroll said the department’s position was news to him.

“The diocese has sought to meet the minister and we have had no response to that request.”

Fr Carroll said the diocese had understood that reimbursement of costs would not be a problem so long as it co-operated with the inquiries.

“Government called the inquiries and Government sought our co-operation. We endeavoured to co-operate as fully as we could and that has been recognised by Judge Murphy.”

He said the legal bill and the prospect of having to find alternative ways to finance it could slow the payment of damages to abuse victims who submitted claims totalling more than 10m, about half of which have been settled.

“Any claim we have had to date, we have met it promptly but we are hitting that point where this issue is impeding our ability to do so.”

Deirdre Fitzpatrick, advocacy director of the One in Four organisation, however, said the diocese could not blame the inquiries for running up its legal bills as it would have had to get its files in order to meet its commitment to pay damages to victims.

“The individual victims who went before the Ferns Inquiry did not have legal representation and they should not now be used as pawns in this dispute in an attempt to twist the arm of the Department of Health.

“At the same time, we do recognise that the judge recommended the Department pay the costs.

One side or the other needs to take responsibility because it is not acceptable that people who were abused would be made suffer further,” he said.

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-03-27 05:32:01)

 #158 2007-03-29 02:45:16
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin 
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Brother to challenge indecent assault law.

The Supreme Court has cleared the way for a Christian Brother to bring a challenge to the constitutionality of laws which provide for maximum sentences for indecent assaults of males which are five times higher than maximum sentences for such offences against females.

The 1861 law provides for a 10-year maximum sentence for indecent assault of males and a two year maximum sentence for a first offence of an indecent assault of a female.

The brother, who faces trial on 31 charges of sexually abusing boys in a residential school in Co Galway in the 1960s and 1970s, claims the law is discriminatory on the grounds of gender and therefore unconstitutional and in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights Act 2003.

In March 2005, the High Court halted the brother’s constitutional claim, which was brought in plenary proceedings, after upholding arguments by the State that it amounted to an abuse of process and should not be allowed go to hearing. However, a three-judge Supreme Court yesterday granted the brother’s appeal against that High Court decision, meaning the brother’s action can proceed.

If the brother wins his challenge, his trial on the 31 abuse charges cannot go ahead. He has been charged with those offences under Section 62 of the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act, the section he is challenging. He has denied the alleged offences.

In 1999, he failed to secure an order to stop his trial on the grounds of delay. In 2003, he began his plenary action challenging the constitutionality of Section 62.

An amended claim was delivered in November 2004 after the introduction of the European Convention on Human Rights Act 2003.

Delivering the Supreme Court judgment yesterday, Mr Justice Nicholas Kearns said the State’s defense in the present proceedings, both in its original and amended form, had failed to make any claim that the brother’s action amounted to an abuse of process.

Mr Justice Kearns noted that the State accepted that the issue raised by the brother was neither frivolous nor vexatious.

The fact the DPP decided not to proceed with the brother’s trial, pending a resolution of the issues, was an implicit recognition that it was “not devoid of some substance”, he added.

The Chief Justice, Mr Justice John Murray, and Mr Justice Nial Fennelly, said they agreed with Mr Justice Kearns and the court made an order allowing the brother’s appeal.

By Vivion Kilfeather

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-03-29 02:54:40)

 #159 2007-03-29 02:50:17
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Abuse victim will not lose her home, says Taoiseach.

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern again insisted that abuse victim Louise O’Keeffe will not lose her house as the State pursues her for €500,000 in legal costs.

Ms O’Keeffe, from Cork, is facing the bill after the High Court decided last year that the State was not responsible for the sexual abuse she suffered as a national school student in the 1970s.

Mr Ahern said that he could not comment on the details of the case, which had been appealed to the Supreme Court, adding that he had made it clear last March that the Government had asked the State Claims Agency, the statutory body that deals with legal fees, to approach the issue of costs in a measured and sensitive way.

“The agency informed Ms O’Keeffe’s solicitor at the time, and on the record, that while the same arrangements would have to be made in respect of costs, there was no question whatsoever of her losing her house, which was the issue.

He said her solicitor had informed the agency that she intended to appeal the case to the Supreme Court.

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said that under the Constitution, the State had a duty to provide for people’s education. “In addition, teachers are paid out of the public purse and the Department of Education and Science sets down the curriculum, pays capitation grants and provides buildings.

“Mr Ahern said he had stated on many occasions that he sympathised greatly with those who were subjected to abuse in schools and in places in which they should have felt safe and protected.

“While I feel deeply sorry for the victims, the courts have found that the State was not liable in this regard,” he said. Meanwhile, in an adjournment debate, Minister for Education Mary Hanafin told Labour’s education spokeswoman Jan O’Sullivan that the education system had long been structured on the basis that schools were sponsored by religious and other patrons.

They were run by local management on their behalf, in the form of the school manager or nowadays the board of management, in whom legal responsibility was vested.

Ms O’Sullivan urged the Government “to review its decision to deny liability for the shocking sexual abuse of children in State primary schools”.

By Michael O’Regan

State criticised over school sex abuse

The State was yesterday accused of abdicating responsibility for children who were abused in day schools in Ireland.

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny raised the case of Louise O’Keeffe who unsuccessfully sued the State in relation to abuse she suffered in Dunderrow National School in Co Cork.

Mr Kenny pointed out that Ms O’Keeffe, who won her case against her abuser but not against the State, now faced legal costs of €500,000. He berated the Department of Education for writing a letter to victims of sexual abuse that occurred in day schools, informing them that the State had no responsibility and they should pursue boards of management.

He said the State had a constitutional duty to protect children. “If that’s the case, we have come to a new low where he will not even accept any moral responsibility for an outrage that happened in so many cases throughout the land,” he claimed.

Mr Ahern replied that the State Claims Agency had been asked to handle the issue of costs in a sensitive manner and had informed Ms O’Keeffe’s solicitor that while the same arrangements would have to be made in respect of costs, there was no question whatsoever of her losing her house, which was the issue.

Mr Ahern said: “While I feel deeply sorry for the victims, the courts have found that the State was not liable in this regard.”

Mr Kenny said the Government had refused to accept responsibility for sexual abuse of children in day schools across the country.

By Harry McGee, Political Editor

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-03-29 02:50:58)

#160 2007-03-29 03:01:50
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

State’s indifference to victims.

There is something particularly unedifying about the spectacle of a Government Minister slithering away from responsibility. When that responsibility involves the duty of the State to ensure the safety of children, it is especially reprehensible.

Minister for Education Mary Hanafin attempted last week to defend the legal tactics of the State, which has recently threatened hundreds of victims of child sexual abuse in national schools that if they did not immediately drop their cases against her department, they would be actively pursued for enormous legal costs.

It was all the lawyers, she said in an interview on RTE news.

She claimed to know nothing about the threatening letters, nor did she sanction them. “It was very much a legal letter going to other lawyers.

It wasn’t in any way intended to upset or to offend . . .

It was never sent to the clients themselves,” she said. What a relief! It will be a great comfort to victims of abuse that all this business about them having to pay huge costs was merely a housekeeping matter between lawyers, “a legal response to a legal question”, according to the Minister in charge.

It is difficult to know what kind of a world Mary Hanafin inhabits.

It must be a happy clappy sort of a place, where no one need bother their fluffy little heads about lawyers or letters or costs or anything nasty like that.

To most people, who incidentally have a somewhat firmer grasp on reality, notification from the State (whether sent to them or their lawyers) of a determination to come after them for hundreds of thousands of euro in legal costs is a terrifying threat.

It is not the first time a government has engaged in this kind of legal intimidation of victims. Describing similar tactics 10 years ago, the following statements were made in the Dail: “the government has been involved in covert and ruthless campaigns to frustrate the victims . . .

Is the minister [ and government colleagues] asking the people of Ireland to accept they were doing their job properly by trying to suggest they were in blissful ignorance of the way the case was being handled?”

This was the current Minister for Finance, Brian Cowen, quite properly excoriating the then coalition government for its vindictive handling of the case of Brigid McCole, a victim of Hepatitis C.

Its excuse at the time, that its actions were for legal reasons, is strikingly similar to the defence now being trotted out by Mary Hanafin for her treatment of another set of victims of State indifference.

It would be hard to better Brian Cowen’s trenchant criticism of a politician who hides behind lawyers in this way.

“Such legal fictions will not wash.

Political responsibility cannot be abdicated away with fanciful legalisms which portray the political master . . . of this tragic case as if it were somebody else’s business.

Even the Minister would have to concede that that falls far short of the most minimalist definition of political accountability.”

It is interesting in the light of the above to note that Brian Cowen himself may have played a role in the settlement of one of the earlier national school abuse cases against the State.

Aiden O’Brien, a constituent of his, appealed to him for assistance when difficulties arose in terms of the State defendants paying out the full amount of damages agreed on in his case.

Liability for the sexual abuse suffered by Aiden as a young child had been jointly accepted in 2005 by the State and by the religious order involved in the Co Offaly primary school concerned – in which incidentally Brian Cowen himself had been a pupil around the same time.

A dispute then arose between the State and the religious order. Compensation to Aiden and other victims was put on the long finger.

Almost immediately after his appeal to Brian Cowen, Aiden received his compensation, paid out in full by the State.

This is an example of a government and a minister behaving properly, responsibly and with the kind of humanity one should expect in the context of their historic and clearly sincere apology in 1999 to victims of child abuse.

It is, however, in sharp contrast to what is happening now.

During the research for the Prime Time programme which I made on the subject last week, I came across a number of cases of individuals raped and sexually abused as children in national schools who have been forced to abandon their cases against the Department of Education out of fear that they could face bankruptcy – simply for seeking justice and accountability from the State, which, after all, compelled them to go to school in the first place.

Others are literally risking everything they have by fighting on.

They have been shocked by Ms Hanafin’s description of them last week as pursuing their cases for reasons of “retribution”.

The despair they feel at the Government’s refusal to take responsibility for what happened to them in what is officially a “national” school system is something we should all feel ashamed of.

By Mary Raftery

161 2007-04-03 03:08:46
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

State gives two hostels to Legion of Mary.

The Health Service Executive (HSE) has decided to give the two largest homeless hostels in Dublin to the Catholic lay organisation, the Legion of Mary, after an independent evaluation found they were below minimum standards and were served with fire safety notices.

Despite being the landlords the HSE had no role in service provision in the hostels, which continue to be managed by the legion.

The 100-bed Regina Coeli (women and children) and the 50-bed Morning Star (men) hostels on Morning Star Avenue in the north inner city are estimated to be worth up to €20 million.

The Homeless Agency – the statutory body charged with ensuring quality services for homeless people – has said it is concerned about the transfer of the properties from the State to the legion and about how basic standards for homeless people using the hostels are to be enforced.

Concerns were expressed to the chief executive of the HSE, Prof Brendan Drumm, in a letter dated March 7th, deputy director of the agency,

Daithi Downey, said. Brian Gilroy, national estates director with the HSE, told The Irish Times the decision had been taken by the HSE board on February 1st to “dispose of” the hostels.

The two drivers behind the decision had been cost and a desire to gain some leverage on service quality over the legion.

He said the legion had a “very unusual” rent-free lease, agreed between the State and the founder of the legion, Frank Duff, in 1922, whereby the State received no income, while the HSE had been paying all utilities of about 100,000 a year.

“The legion had an indefinite right to renew the lease every 35 years. We had the right to sell the properties but we would have had to compensate them or provide a new premises on the same terms.”

The HSE had had “absolutely no say” in the quality of service, while now it had some leverage, he said.

While most homeless service providers depend on statutory funding and must comply with minimum standards, the legion receives no funding. Apart from fire safety, environmental and health and safety officers, no one has a right to inspect its premises.

There is no licensing system for homeless shelters.

This anomaly came to the fore last year when the Homeless Agency commissioned two independent housing consultants to evaluate all emergency accommodation in Dublin.

The legion initially refused to participate but in September agreed. One of the consultants, Simon Brook, assessed the two hostels and found them not to reach minimum basic standards under 21 headings, including health and safety, food service and provision and accommodation. He also became concerned about fire safety and called in Dublin Fire Brigade.

The brigade confirmed that fire safety notices were issued to the HSE last December. Bringing the hostels up to fire safety standard would have cost the HSE 3 million, said Mr Gilroy.

At a hearing in the Circuit Court in January, on foot of the fire safety notices, an agreement was reached where the HSE would hand freehold of the hostels to the legion, with two covenants attached.

“The legion must provide ‘quality charitable services’ within six months and, if the legion ever sells the land, half the money comes back to the HSE,” he said. Declan Lawlor, trust officer with the de Montfort Trust (the legal entity of the legion), said it would be making a major capital investment in the hostels, and was engaging architects and fire consultants.  By Kitty Holland

Comment

I HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE DAIL EIREANN PROTESTING SINCE OCTOBER 2005 BECAUSE OF INJURIES RECEIVED AT THE MOTHER/BABY MATER DEI UNIT. NOW NOT IN EXISTENCE.

THE STATE UNRELENTINGLY SAID THE REGINA CEOLI WAS A PRIVATE INSTITUTION.

I EFFECTIVELY SO PERSISTENTLY KEPT TELLING THE STATE THAT IT OWNED THE BUILDING  – THAT THE MOTHER AND BABY UNIT WAS REGISTERED AS A MATERNITY HOME.

IT SICKENS ME TO THE CORE THAT THE GOVERNMENT CAN CARRY ON IGNORING THE FACT THAT SERIOUS INJURIES OCCURRED TO AN INNOCENT BABY DURING THE EARLY FIFTIES.

IT IS TRYING TO WASH ITS HANDS OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY. YET BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, IT HAS HANDED OVER THE BUILDING.

UNDENIABLY, BECAUSE OF FIRE REGULATIONS HAVING NOT BEEN APPROPRIATELY IN PLACE. NOT TOO LONG AFTER THE INOPPORTUNE FIRE INCIDENT, [I WAS STRAPPED VERY TIGHTLY INTO A HIGH CHAIR, WHICH SUBSEQUENTLY TOPPLED OVER INTO AN OPEN BLAZING FIRE}.

THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SENT LETTERS, REGARDING FIRE SAFETY REGULATIONS, TO ALL MATERNITY HOMES.

YET THE SAME GOVERNMENT HAS TRIED TO ERADICATE ITSELF FROM THE ENTIRE CHEERLESS  REMORSEFUL DEBACLE.

I AM A DISTINCT FIGURE OF SIXTEEN MONTHS CAMPAIGNING OUTSIDE THE DAIL.

I HAVE BEEN PROVEN BY THE GOVERNMENT TO BE CORRECT IN MY PRÉCIS OF THE POSSESSION OF THE REGINA CEOLI.

IT WAS/IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE NOT TO HAVE/HAD FIRE SAFETY MEASURES IN PLACE.

HOW IN GOD’S NAME WAS THIS RUN DOWN ESTABLISHMENT ALLOWED BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY TO GET AWAY WITH IT.

COULD IT BE THE PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT SERVANT OF GOD FRANK DUFF, LIKE POPE JOHN PAUL II IS, UP FOR CANONISATION?

THE FUDGING AND HEDGING OF THIS PRESENT GOVERNMENT LEAVES A LOT TO BE DESIRED.

I READ THAT SIX OF THE TOP MINISTERS GOT STUCK IN A LIFT AT GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS.

Instead of feeling the earth move, they jolted to a sudden halt.

Let us hope the electorate jolt them out of the government buildings on a permanent basic in the forthcoming May 2007 election.

It would certainly bring them down to real earth!………………. Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin

Comment

“The legion had an indefinite right to renew the lease every 35 years”.

I HOLD FRANK DUFF RESPONSIBLE FOR TURNING A BLIND EYE TO WHAT HAPPENED TO ME.

WHEN I EVENTUALLY WENT INTO GOLDENBRIDGE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL, HE NEVER ONCE ASKED AFTER MY HEALTH.
CONSIDERING WHAT HAPPENED I THINK THIS IS DEPLORABLE.

THE LEGION  OF MARY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR KEEPING PEOPLE IN SQUALOR.

SINCE 1922 IT DID NOTHING TO UPGRADE THE STANDARDS OF THE REGINA CEOLI.

A WOMAN WORKER FELL AND BROKE HER SPINE A COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER MY INJURY, AND NOTHING WAS STILL DONE ABOUT THE DREADFUL CONDITIONS AT THAT PLACE.

FRANK DUFF HAD A LOT OF POWER, HE WORKED FOR THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE.

HE COULD DO WHAT HE LIKED.

THIS ORGANIZATION PURPORTS TO BE HELPING PEOPLE YET WHEN PEOPLE ARE SEVERELY INJURIED IT TURNS THE OTHER CHEEK.

“We had the right to sell the properties but we would have had to compensate them or provide a new premises on the same terms” .

THE GOVERNMENT IS NO BETTER THAN THE LEGION OF MARY. ONE ONLY HAS TO READ THE ABOVE STATEMENT. SO POOR PEOPLE SUFFERED BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNMENT MIGHT HAVE TO COMPENSATE THE LEGION OF MARY. THEY ARE WORTHLESS IT SEEMS IN BOTH THEIR EYES.

“The HSE had had “absolutely no say” in the quality of service, while now it had some leverage, he said”

THIS IS JUST A GET OUT CLAUSE.

IN THE MEANTIME I WILL CARRY ON WITH MY CAMPAIGN.

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-04-16 03:13:58)

 #162 2007-04-21 14:57:13
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Contract signed for Dublin court complex.

Wednesday, 18 April 2007 17:24.

The Courts Service has signed the contract for a new Dublin Criminal Court Complex.

The new 22 courtroom building to be located near the Phoenix Park will incorporate all the criminal business of the Dublin courts into a single central complex.

It will be built as a public private partnership with Babcock & Brown.

The Courts Service says the Four Courts will then be redeveloped as a civil courts complex.

The Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell, has welcomed the announcement. He said the construction of the new complex is due to start in the summer, and it is due to be completed in 2009.

 #163 2007-04-23 07:42:21
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

A GUIDE TO THE REDRESS SCHEME UNDER THE RESIDENTIAL INSTITUTIONS REDRESS ACT, 2002

as amended by the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse (Amendment) Act, 2005

Third edition Issued in December 2005 by The Residential Institutions Redress Board,
Belfield Office Park,
Beech Hill Road,
Clonskeagh,
Dublin 4.

CONTENTS

Paragraphs
Introduction                          1  –  9
Entitlement to redress                    10  – 18
How the redress is assessed                19  – 29
When and how to apply for redress            30  – 47
How the Board deals with an application        48  – 57
Settling an application by agreement            58  – 67
Determination of an application by the Board        68  – 100
Payment of redress                          101  – 111
Refusal of application by the Board                  112
Right to apply to the Review Committee              113 – 116

Appendix 1:    Residential institutions listed in the Schedule to the Act
Appendix II:    Additional institutions listed in the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002 (Additional Institutions) Order 2004
Appendix III:    Additional institutions listed in the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002 (Additional Institutions) Order, 2005
Appendix IV:    Regulations made by the Minister under the Act

A GUIDE TO THE REDRESS SCHEME UNDER THE RESIDENTIAL INSTITUTIONS REDRESS ACT, 2002 as amended

The Guide to the Redress Scheme originally published by the Board in December 2002 has been supplemented or amended by Newsletters published by the Board, and by the “Guide to Hearing Procedures” published by the Board in April 2003.  A revised edition of the Guide to the Redress Scheme was published in October 2004.  Part 4 of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse (Amendment) Act, 2005, has amended the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002, in a number of ways which affect the practice and procedure of the Board with immediate effect. This third edition of the Guide takes these additions and amendments into account and sets out the current practice of the Board in dealing with applications for redress.
The Board retains the right to make additional provisions and/or to amend its procedures from time to time in the light of further experience.  All such additions or amendments will be posted on the Board’s website and otherwise published as considered appropriate by the Board.

INTRODUCTION

The purpose of this Guide

1. The purpose of this Guide is to explain how the Redress Board established under the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002 (“the Act”) deals with applications for redress.  The procedure followed by the Board is largely prescribed by the Act, by Regulations made by the Minister for Education and Science in accordance with the Act (a list of these Regulations is given in Appendix IV to this Guide) and by Part 4 of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse (Amendment) Act, 2005.  The Board must also comply with all appropriate requirements of the general law.  While every attempt has been made to ensure that this Guide complies with these legal requirements, in the event of a dispute it is the law, and not this Guide, which must be followed.  The Redress Board will be pleased to send a copy of the Act and the Regulations free of charge to any person who requests them.

2. It must also be pointed out that this Guide does not cover all the circumstances which may arise in the course of dealing with an application or all the matters which may have to be decided by the Board.  It is also possible that the procedure followed by the Board will be further modified in the light of experience. The Board has found it helpful to provide new and additional information as to its procedures by means of regular newsletters rather than by issuing new editions of the Guide.  Accordingly, this edition of the Guide may be amended or supplemented from time to time by newsletters which will be published on the Board’s website and copies of which will be available free of charge from the Board.  A further edition of this Guide may be published if considered appropriate by the Board.

3. The Board will in any case be pleased to answer any queries relating to its procedures. You may contact the Board as follows:
Postal address:    Belfield Office Park, Beech Hill Road, Clonskeagh, Dublin 4.
Telephone:    1 800 200 086 (Freephone) or 01 268 0600.
Fax:    01 268 0025
Email:    info@rirb.ie
Website:    www.rirb.ie

The general nature of the redress scheme
4. This scheme provides an alternative method of providing redress to those who as children were abused while resident in one or more of the institutions listed in the Act.  The making of an application to the Redress Board does not involve the waiver of any right of action for damages which the applicant may have in the civil courts or elsewhere.  But if an applicant decides to accept an award of redress from the Board, he or she must at that stage sign a formal waiver giving up certain rights of action which he or she may have against the Department of Education and Science and/or other persons or bodies.

Legal advice

5. You do not need legal advice or representation in order to apply for redress, and you may do so on your own or with the assistance of a relative or friend.  If you do decide to seek legal advice to help you with your application and to present your case, the Board will pay the reasonable costs and expenses of these services.  The Board must leave the make-up of the applicant’s legal representation to each applicant; but the Board will normally resist any application for costs in respect of more than one solicitor and one barrister.

The Redress Board

6. The Redress Board consists of a Chairperson and ordinary members appointed by the Minister for Education and Science.  As provided in the Act, the Board and its members are wholly independent in the performance of their functions.

7. The Board has two main functions.  The first is to make all reasonable efforts, through public advertisement, direct correspondence and otherwise, to ensure that persons who were residents of an institution listed in the Act are made aware of the existence of the Board, so that they may consider making an application for redress.  It is then the Board’s function in relation to each case in which an application has been made to determine whether the applicant is entitled to an award, and, if so, to make an award in accordance with the Act which is fair and reasonable having regard to the unique circumstances of the applicant.  An award made by the Board may be reviewed by the Review Committee set up under the Act.

8. In the performance of these functions, the members of the Board are assisted by ”
(a)The Registrar, Secretary and other members of staff of the Board;
(b)Counsel and solicitors to the Board, and
(c)The Board’s panel of medical advisers.

Annual report to the Minister for Education and Science

.  The Board is required to submit to the Minister for Education and Science
(a )an annual report of its activities and particulars of its accounts;
(b)such additional reports on matters relating to the performance of its functions as are requested by the Minister. No report made by the Board will identify any applicant, institution or person referred to in an application.  Copies of all reports will be laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister.

ENTITLEMENT TO REDRESS

The main rules of the scheme

10. A person who makes an application for redress must establish four matters to the satisfaction of the Board in order to qualify for an award:
(i)  His or her identity;
(ii)  His or her residence during childhood (i.e. while under the age of 18 years) in an institution listed in the schedule to the Act;
(iii)  He or she was abused while so resident and suffered injury, and
(iv)  That injury is consistent with any abuse that is alleged to have occurred while so resident.

Proof of identity

11. An applicant for redress must provide the Board with evidence of his or her identity.  For this purpose the Board will normally require an applicant to provide it with the original or a solicitor’s certified copy of any two of the following documents:
(a)Passport;
(b)Driving licence;
(c)Birth certificate;
(d)Marriage certificate;
(e)Pension book;
(f)Social welfare card or other document;
(g)A recent electricity, gas or other utilities bill, or
(h)Any other official document vouching identity.

An applicant’s identity may also be established by the oral evidence of a responsible person.  Where an application is made on behalf of a person who has died since 11 May 1999, the spouse or children of the deceased person may give oral evidence of his or her identity.

The meaning of “abuse”

12.  The Act provides that “abuse” of a child means
(a)  the wilful, reckless or negligent infliction of physical injury on, or failure to prevent such injury to, the child;
(b) the use of the child by a person for sexual arousal or sexual gratification of that person or another person;
(c) failure to care for the child which results in serious impairment of the physical or mental health or development of the child or serious adverse effects on his or her behaviour or welfare, or
(d) any other act or omission towards the child which results in serious impairment of the physical or mental health or development of the child or serious adverse effects on his or her behaviour or welfare. The following are some particular examples of abuse for which redress may be payable:

TYPE OF ABUSE

EXAMPLES

SEXUAL ABUSE

Violent anal or vaginal penetration.
Victim made to masturbate member of staff or perform oral-genital acts.
Sexual kissing; indecent touching of private parts over clothing.

PHYSICAL ABUSE

Serious injuries requiring hospitalisation; profound deafness caused by blows to ears.
Severe beating causing e.g. a fractured limb or leaving permanent scars.
Corporal punishment more severe than was legally sanctioned at the time, but leaving no permanent physical signs.  Gross over-work involving inadequate rest, recreation and sleep.

EMOTIONAL ABUSE

Depersonalisation e.g. through family ties being severed without justification or through deprivation of affection.
General climate of fear and apprehension.
Stigmatisation by staff, e.g. through repeated racist remarks or hurtful references to parents.

NEGLECT

Severe malnutrition; failure to protect child against abusive placements; inadequate guarding against dangerous equipment in work-place.
Failure to provide legally prescribed minimum of school instruction; lack of appropriate vocational training and training in life skills.
Inadequate clothing, bedding or heating.

13.  It is not necessary for a person to have been prosecuted or convicted of any criminal offence in connection with the abuse suffered by an applicant.

The meaning of “injury”

14. The Act provides that “injury” includes physical or psychological injury and injury that has occurred in the past or currently exists.  Redress under the Act is payable in respect of any injury which is consistent with any abuse suffered by the applicant while he or she was resident in a specified institution.
The following are some particular examples of injury for which redress may be payable:
NATURE OF INJURY
EXAMPLES

PHYSICAL OR PSYCHIATRIC ILLNESS

1. Physical injury

2. Physical illness

3. Psychiatric illness

1. Loss of sight or hearing.
Loss of or damage to teeth.
Permanent scar(s)/disfigurement.

2. Sexually transmitted diseases.
Respiratory diseases.
Skin diseases.

3. Severe depression with suicide attempts.
Personality disorder.
Post-traumatic stress disorder.

PSYCHOLOGICAL INJURY

1. Emotional disorder

2. Cognitive impairment/ educational retardation

3. Psychosocial maladjustment

4. Anti-social behaviour

1. Inability to show affection or trust
Low self-esteem; persistent feelings of shame or guilt.
Recurrent nightmares or flashbacks.

2. Literacy level well below capability.
Impoverished thought processes.
Limited vocabulary leading to communication difficulties.

3. Marital difficulties involving sexual dysfunction.
Low frustration tolerance.
Shyness and withdrawal from mixing with people.

4. Substance abuse.
Compulsive stealing.
Physical aggressiveness.

LOSS OF OPPORTUNITY

1. Having to refuse employment opportunity/ promotion
because of illiteracy.

2. Need to concoct a false identity and to live a lie with workmates.

3. Unable to pursue certain occupations, e.g. police, because of “record”.

In every case the Redress Board will have to be satisfied that the particular injury resulted “as a consequence of the abuse” suffered by the applicant.

The meaning of “resident”

15. Redress can only be paid to persons who as children were abused while “esident” in a specified institution. “Resident” is not defined in the Act, but normally means living and sleeping in a particular place for some time.  A person who attended an institution only during the day-time will not be regarded as having been “resident” in that institution.  In general the Board will consider whether the institution in question may be regarded as the applicant’s home at the time when the abuse occurred.

16. The Act makes three special provisions relating to this “residence” requirement:
(i)  “Residence” in an institution includes any case where a child was resident in an institution as a result of having been sent and detained there under the Children Act 1908 (section 1(4)).
(ii) Abuse of a child “in an institution” includes any case in which the abuse took place, not in the institution itself, but while the child was residing or being cared for in the institution and the abuse was committed or aided by a person engaged in the management or supervision of the institution or a person otherwise employed in or associated with the institution (section 1(2)).
(iii)  A person who was resident in an institution and then transferred to another place of residence which carried on the business of a laundry and who suffered abuse while resident in that laundry “shall be deemed” to have been resident in that institution” (section 1(3)).

Ineligibility for redres

17.  Redress may not be payable to any of the following persons:
1. A person who was not “resident” for the purposes of the Act in one of the specified institutions when the abuse occurred.
2.  A person who died before 12 May 1999.
3.  A person who fails to make an application in the form prescribed by the Board within the time stipulated in the Act.
4.  A person who fails to satisfy the Board that he or she is entitled to redress under the Act.
5.  A person who has received damages from a court or a settlement in respect of the abuse and injuries described in the application for redress.
6.  A person whose claim for damages in respect of the abuse and injuries described in the application for redress has been rejected by a court or which has been the subject of any other judicial determination (not being a determination concerning the Statute of Limitations or an interlocutory matter).
18. A person, whether or not an applicant for redress, who gives false evidence to the Board may be guilty of a criminal offence.  If found guilty, that person is liable –
(a)on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding 3,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both;
(b)on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding 25,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or both.

HOW THE REDRESS IS ASSESSED

19. The awards made by the Board are required by the Act to be “fair and reasonable having regard to the unique circumstances of each applicant”.  But the Act also stipulates that in making an award the Board “shall have regard to” Regulations made by the Minister. Under the Act and the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002 (Assessment of Redress) Regulations 2002, redress is awarded under four headings, as follows.
(a)  Redress in respect of the severity of the abuse and injury
20. An award of redress in respect of the severity of the abuse and the injury suffered by an applicant is determined by a two-stage process.  First, the Board assesses the weight to be attached to the different elements that go to make up the experiences of victims of abuse according to the following table:
Weighting scale for evaluation of severity of abuse and consequential injury

Constitutive elements of redress

Severity of abuse
Severity of injury resulting from abuse
Medically verified physical/psychiatric
Illness
Psycho-social sequelae
Loss of opportunity
Weighting
1-25
1-30
1-30
1-15
The Board will first consider the severity of the abuse suffered by the individual applicant and make an appropriate award on a scale of 1 25, with 25 representing the most severe form of abuse.  The Board will then, by reference to the medical evidence, assess on a scale of 1 – 30 the severity of the physical and/or psychiatric illness suffered by the applicant as a result of the abuse.  It will next perform the same task with regard to the psycho-social sequelae of the abuse.  Finally, on a scale of 1-15 it will assess the loss of opportunity suffered by the applicant.  In this regard it should be noted that no redress is payable for loss of earnings as such, and the Board will not take into account (or pay for) any actuarial material relating to loss of earnings presented to it by or on behalf of an applicant.
21.    These four separate weightings are designed to produce an overall assessment of the severity of the abuse and the injury suffered by the applicant.  When they are added together, the Board will “stand back” and look at the case overall to see whether the total assessment reached in this way is reasonable in all the circumstances for the particular applicant; where necessary, it may make appropriate adjustments to the overall assessment.
22.    The amount of redress will then be determined by reference to the Board’s assessment of the severity of the abuse and the injury, according to the following redress bands:

Redress Bands
REDRESS BAND
TOTAL WEIGHTING FOR SEVERITY OF ABUSE AND INJURY/EFFECTS OF ABUSE
AWARD PAYABLE BY WAY OF REDRESS
V
70 OR MORE
200,000 – 300,000
IV
55-69
150,000 – 200,000
III
40  54
100,000 – 150,000
II
25-39
50,000-100,000
I
LESS THAN 25
Up to 50,000

23. Where the abuse suffered by an applicant and the injury arising from the abuse are considered by the Board to be so serious as to constitute an exceptional case which cannot reasonably be provided for within these redress bands, the Board may deviate therefrom.  In every such case, the Board is required to inform the Minister of its reasons for so doing.
(b)  Additional redress on the principle of aggravated damages

24.  Where the injury suffered by an applicant was not restricted to specific acts of abuse, but was exacerbated by the general climate of fear and oppression which pervaded the institution in which he or she was resident, additional redress may be awarded by the Board.  Without going into any question of fault on the part of any person or institution, the Board may make such an additional award where it is satisfied that it is appropriate to do so having regard to the exceptional circumstances of the case.  Such additional award may not exceed 20 per cent of the redress otherwise payable as a result of the Board’s assessment of the severity of the abuse and the injury suffered by the applicant.

25. In the opinion of the Board, two factors must be taken into account in the application of the principle of aggravated damages in the context of the redress scheme. First, the level of “aggravation” which should attract an additional award must take into account that the very essence of the scheme is to provide redress for the serious hurt suffered by applicants who have been abused.  In other words, the “constitutive elements of redress” (set out in paragraph 20 above) establish that the threshold from which the Board must consider whether an applicant has suffered additional hurt is a high one.  Secondly, factors which in other cases might be taken to justify an award of aggravated damages will normally have already have been taken into account by the Board in its assessment of the severity of the abuse or of the injuries suffered by the applicant.  It is the view of the Board that additional awards on the basis of aggravated damages will only be made in exceptional circumstances.
Accordingly, an additional award based on the principle of aggravated damages will only be made where the Board is satisfied that the manner in which the applicant was abused was so oppressive or outrageous that an award based solely on the constitutive elements of redress does not represent an award which is fair and reasonable having regard to the unique circumstances of the applicant.
26. No additional redress is payable on the principle of punitive or exemplary damages.

(c) Medical expenses

27. An award by the Board may include an award for medical expenses incurred or to be incurred in respect of medical treatment for the injury suffered by the applicant.  The award will, for example, include the expense of medical treatment (including psychiatric treatment) for the injury resulting from the abuse which it was reasonable for the applicant to receive in the past and/or which appears to the Board, on the basis of the medical evidence available to it, to be reasonable for him or her to receive in the future.  The award for medical expenses will take the form of an additional award assessed on the basis of the evidence available to the Board, and in accordance with the Regulations made by the Minister.
The Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002 (Section 17) Regulations 2002 provide that the Board when making an award may include an additional award in respect of the reasonable expenses of medical treatment which the applicant has received for the effects of his or her injury.  The Board may also include an additional award in respect of the reasonable costs of medical treatment which the applicant will receive in the future, but such award shall not exceed 10 per cent of the redress award.

28. The Board may in its assessment of the severity of the injury suffered by the applicant take into account the likelihood that the necessary treatment will have an ameliorative effect on the condition of the applicant in the future.

(d) Other costs and expenses

29. An award made by the Board may also include an award for reasonable expenses incurred in making the application to the Board.
[For further details of the expenses and legal costs payable by the Board, see below  paragraphs 76 and 111.
Please note that applicants and their families may also be entitled to funding under the Education Fund set up by the Department of Education and Science in 2002.  This fund aims to provide an opportunity for former residents who were denied an education. Further information about the Fund is available from the Education Facilitator, NOVA, 19 Upper Ormond Quay, Dublin 7.]
WHEN AND HOW TO APPLY FOR REDRESS

[For further details with regard to making an application to the Board, please see the “Guide to Application Procedure” published by the Board.]

Time limit for making application

30 An application for redress must be made to the Board within three years of the establishment day.  By the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002 (Establishment Day) Order 2002, 16 December 2002 was appointed as the Board’s establishment day.  Accordingly, the closing date for receipt of applications is 15 December 2005. However, the Board may, at its discretion and where it considers there are exceptional circumstances, extend this time limit.  In particular, the Board will extend the time limit where it is satisfied that an applicant was under a legal disability by reason of unsound mind at the time when the application should otherwise have been made, and the applicant concerned makes an application to the Board within three years of the cessation of that disability.

Application forms

31. An application for redress must be made in writing on a form prescribed by the Board.  The Board has prescribed two types of application form, as follows:
General application form: This form must be used in any of the following cases:
(1)    Where an application is made by the injured person himself or herself;
(2)    Where an application is made on behalf of an injured person who is under the age of 18 at the time when the application is made, and
(3)    Where the application is made on behalf of an injured person who is incapable of managing his or her own affairs.
Application form (deceased persons): This form must be used in any case where the injured person has died since 11 May 1999 and an application is made on his or her behalf.

Applications on behalf of children under the age of 18

32. An application on behalf of a child under the age of 18 should normally be made and signed by an adult with parental responsibility for the child – a natural parent, adoptive parent or any other person with legal parental responsibility for him or her.  In all such cases the Board will ask for proof of the identity both of the injured person and of the applicant, and will also require to be satisfied that the person making the application is properly entitled to act on behalf of the injured person.

Applications on behalf of adults unable to manage their own affairs

33.    Where the injured person is an adult who is incapable of managing his or her own affairs, the application should be made on his or her behalf by a person properly authorised to do so.  The Board will accept that a person is so authorised only where he or she provides the Board with appropriate evidence –
(a)  as to the identity of the applicant;
(b)  that the injured person is incapable of managing his or her own affairs, and
(c)  that the applicant is entitled to act on behalf of the injured person.

Applications on behalf of a person who died after 11 May 1999

34.    Where a person who is or may be entitled to redress has died since 11 May 1999 without making an application, the spouse or children of that person may make an application on his or her behalf.  A “spouse” for this purpose includes a person with whom the deceased person is or was at a time cohabiting.  But only one application may be made in respect of a deceased person.
35. Where an injured person dies after making an application but before the application is settled or determined by the Board, his or her spouse or children may proceed with the application.

Evidence in support of application

36. When making an application using the appropriate form, the applicant must also provide the Board with written evidence o”
(a)his or her identity,
(b)his or her residence in the institution concerned,
(c)the abuse received while so resident, and
(d)the injuries received as a consequence of such abuse.
With regard to (b) (proof of residence in institution) a report entitled “Report by School Number and Pupil Number” may be obtained from the Department of Education and Science, Cornamaddy, Athlone, Co Westmeath, which holds records for children who were sent to a residential institution on foot of a court order.  If an applicant or his or her solicitor states in a Freedom of Information request to the Department that he or she is seeking evidence of residence to support an application to the Board, the Freedom of Information section will give the matter priority and will send the report within approximately two weeks.  This report will normally be sufficient proof of residence and will, where available, be required by the Board.

Allegations of abuse.

37. Where specific alleged abusers are identified their names should appear at section 6 of the application form (“Description of abuse suffered by the Injured Person”); where an application is made on behalf of a person who has died since 11 May 1999, the details should be provided in section 7 of the application form (“Details of Abuse”).  In either case, leaving this part of the application form blank where the statement of abuse or other documents identify alleged perpetrators, or simply referring the Board to such statement or documents, is not acceptable.  The Board must notify all named individuals against whom abuse is alleged; the assessment whether any person mentioned in passing in the statement of abuse or in other documents accompanying the application form is an abuser is a matter for the applicant, not for the Board.  Any application which lacks the appropriate information in the relevant section of the application form will be returned to the applicant.

Medical reports of injuries sustained by applicant

38. The purpose of the medical report is to assist the Board in its task of determining the amount of redress payable with respect to the unique circumstances of the individual applicant, based on the effects on him or her of the abuse suffered while resident in an institution as a child.  Accordingly, the report should contain a history of the abuse forming the basis of the application and a description of the immediate and long-term effects of such abuse.  Where appropriate, the report should in particular describe –
The nature, severity, treatment and prognosis of any psychiatric disorder;
The nature, severity, treatment and prognosis of any personality disorder;
The presence of any medical condition;
The psychosocial consequences of the abuse;
The general adaptation and global level of functioning of the applicant, and
The loss of opportunity resulting from any of the above or from lack of
appropriate education.
The report should also provide, where possible, a history of the pre-injury status of the applicant, and the impact of the abuse suffered by the applicant on his or her pre-existing condition.
The Board will need to be satisfied in respect of each of these matters that the “injuries” arose from, or are consistent with, the abuse suffered by the applicant.
The Board would also appreciate an opinion as to the relative severity of the applicant’s injuries.  The report should also address the nature and extent of any treatment to date and, where treatment is recommended, an outline of such treatment and the expected duration of such treatment.  If appropriate, an opinion on the applicant’s ability to manage his or her funds would be appreciated.
It may be useful for the person writing the report to have regard to the definition of â”abuse” set out in section 1(1) of the Act (for a summary of this definition see paragraph 12 above).

39.    An applicant is not required to produce to the Board any evidence of negligence by an individual person or the employer of that person or by a public body.

40.    Where an applicant fails to provide the Board with evidence of one or more of the matters listed in paragraph 36 above, the Board will so notify the applicant in writing, and no further consideration may be given to the application until that evidence has been received by the Board.

41.    The written evidence in support of an application may take the form of one or more documents, and should normally be typewritten.  The Board will accept hand-written documents only if they are fully legible.  Where any supporting evidence is not legible in the opinion of the Board, it will be returned to the applicant and no further consideration may be given to the application until a legible statement has been received by the Board.

42. An applicant may also provide oral evidence in support of his or her application, and may be required to do so by the Board.  Where an applicant intends to call witnesses to give oral evidence, he or she must, as soon as possible after making the application, provide the Board with a list of those witnesses, together with an indication of the evidence which they will give.  The Board may not be able to arrange a hearing of the application until it has received this information.

43.    For the purposes of establishing any of the matters listed in paragraph 36 above, the Board may, on its own behalf or if asked to do so by an applicant, request by notice in writing any person to produce to the Board and to the applicant any existing document in his or her possession, custody or control which relates to such matters.  Where the Board is asked by an applicant to make such a request, the Board will do so only where it is satisfied that the applicant has first made all reasonable efforts to obtain the document and that the document is strictly relevant to one or more of the matters raised in the application.
It is only in such cases that the powers of the Board can be relied on.  Requesting the Board to get for the applicant either information that can be obtained in the normal course or information which is needed for a purpose other than an application is outside the powers of the Board.

44.    A person to whom such notice is addressed shall provide the Board and the applicant with the document specified in the notice if it is in the possession, custody or control of that person.  The Board will notify the applicant in writing if the document in question is not provided by the person concerned.

Onus on applicant
45. It is for the applicant to satisfy the Board that he or she is entitled to redress under the provisions of the Act.  The more information which the applicant gives to the Board in support of his or her application the more speedily the Board will be able to determine the application.

Service of application and other documents

46.    An application for redress and all other documents to be considered by the Board must be served on the Board –
(a)by registered pre-paid post addressed to the Board’s office, or
(b)by delivery to the Board’s office.
Service of the application form by post may be proved by production of a certificate of posting; service by delivery to the Board’s office may be proved by an entry in the Board’s records.

47. An applicant must include in the application form the full address for service of any documents from the Board.  Where an applicant is represented by a solicitor, the address for service will be the business address of the solicitor, as stated in the application form.

HOW THE BOARD DEALS WITH AN APPLICATION

Confidentiality of proceedings by the Board

48.The Board will deal with all applications and all matters relating thereto in the strictest confidence.  It is a criminal offence for any person, including an applicant or the Board, to disclose information provided to the Board, with three exceptions:
(i)  The Board is required to provide the Department of Education and Science with brief details of each application to enable the Department to exercise its legal powers in connection with the Act.
(ii)  Any person may disclose information
(a)  to a member of the Garda Siochana if the person disclosing the information is acting in good faith and reasonably believes that such disclosure is necessary in order to prevent an act or omission constituting a serious offence, or
(b) to an appropriate person if the person disclosing the information is acting in good faith and reasonably believes that such disclosure is necessary to prevent, reduce or remove a substantial risk to the life or to prevent the continuance of abuse of a child.
(iii) A person, including the applicant or the Board, may disclose a document or other information used in connection with an application to the Board to any body conducting a hearing, inquiry or investigation under statutory powers, or to any other body as may be prescribed by order made by the Minister.
Please note that exceptions (i) and (ii) were made by the 2002 Act and are now referred to for the sake of completeness; exception (iii) is a new exception provided by the 2005 Act which is intended in particular to allow a complaint to the Law Society against a solicitor by an applicant for redress to be more fully investigated.
Acknowledgement of application

49. The Board will provide an applicant with a written acknowledgement of receipt of the application form.  This acknowledgement will normally be sent within five days of receipt of the application by the Board and will assign to the applicant a personal reference code which he or she should always use when contacting the Board.

Applications given priority

50. In its consideration of applications, the Board will give priority to applicants –
(i)  who were born before 1 January 1934, or
(ii)  who are at the time when the application is made suffering from a medical illness or psychiatric condition which is life-threatening, as confirmed in writing by a letter from the applicant’s regular medical adviser.
Please note that as from the end of 2005, the Board will give priority under (i) to applicants born before 1 January 1936.

Conduct of application

51. The Board has a general power to make such directions and arrangements for the conduct of the application, including the imposition of conditions, as it considers appropriate in all the circumstances.

Further information from the applicant

52. On consideration of an application and any supporting evidence, the Board may request further information or further evidence from the applicant.  An applicant should note that if he or she fails to comply with reasonable requests for information or otherwise fails to give the Board full assistance in connection with the application, consideration of the application by the Board may be delayed and it is possible that the Board will not be satisfied that he or she is entitled to redress.

Enquiries of police and other bodies

53. In its consideration of an application, the Board may make its own enquiries as to any of the matters mentioned by the applicant from the Gardai/police, medical authorities and other relevant persons or bodies.

Notification of relevant person

54.    The Act and Regulations made by the Minister require the Board, as soon as may be practicable following receipt of an application, to take such reasonable steps as are necessary to inform a “relevant person” that the application has been made.  A “relevant person” for this purpose is –
(a) any person who is referred to in the application as having carried out the acts of abuse described by the applicant, and
(b) in the case of any institution referred to in the application as being the institution in which the those acts of abuse were carried out, the person who is concerned with the systems of management, administration, operation, supervision, inspection and regulation of such institution as the institution concerned may determine and specify in writing to the Board.
55. Where the Board so informs any relevant person, it will invite him or her to provide it with any evidence in writing concerning such application as the relevant person considers appropriate. For this purpose, a relevant person will be entitled, on request in writing to the Board, to receive a copy of the application form together with a copy of
any written evidence attached to that form which relates to the identity of the injured person or his or her residence in an institution or which concerns the circumstances of the abuse suffered by the injured person.  The Board does not send to a relevant person –
(i)    any information which will or may disclose the present whereabouts of the injured person;
(ii)  a photograph of the injured person, or
(iii)  any medical reports provided by or on behalf of the injured person.
56. Where the Board receives written evidence from or on behalf of a relevant person, it will forward a copy of that evidence to the applicant.

Abandonment of application

57.    A person who wishes to discontinue his or her application for redress may do so at any time by so notifying the Board in writing.

SETTLING AN APPLICATION BY AGREEMENT

58 The Board will delegate two of its members to consider settlement of applications without a hearing in cases where it appears appropriate to the Board and the applicant has so consented in writing.  The members nominated may vary from time to time.  The members delegated (the “settlement panel”) will have full powers to settle cases.  The applicant’s legal representatives will be informed of the award which the settlement panel consider should be made by applying precisely the same principles as would apply at a hearing of an application (see above paragraphs 19-28).

59.    The applicant’s consent will normally be shown by ticking the appropriate box in section 11 of the Application Form.  If this box is not ticked, the Board will seek other written confirmation that the applicant wishes to consider the possibility of settling his or her application without a hearing.
It is the Board’s practice not to consider for settlement but to require a hearing in the case of any application by a person who is not legally represented.
60. Where an applicant is legally represented, an application will not be considered for settlement unless the settlement panel –
(i)  has obtained a report from a medical adviser to the Board in accordance with section 10(11) and (12) of the Act, and
(ii)  is satisfied that
(a) “the evidence in relation to an application establishes that the applicant is entitled to redress under the Act, and
(b) it is not necessary in the interests of justice“
(i) to allow a relevant person either to give oral evidence to the Board or to cross-examine the applicant or any person giving evidence on behalf of the applicant, or
(ii)    to allow the applicant to cross-examine the relevant person or any person giving evidence on behalf of the relevant person.

1.    Settlement discussions will be conducted between the applicant’s legal representatives and solicitor/counsel employed by the Board.  The legal representatives of the Board will take their instructions from the Board’s settlement panel.  The applicant will be entitled through his or her legal representative to information on the basis of which any offer is made; this will include details of the weighting used by the settlement panel.

62.    Settlement discussions will be without prejudice on both sides, so that if agreement is not reached the application can be heard by a different division of the Board without reference to the fact, or the contents, of the settlement discussions.

63.    In the event of agreement, the Board will as soon as may be thereafter notify the applicant in writing of the details of the matters agreed in the manner set out in section 13 of the 2002 Act. This Notice of Award will constitute the notification of an award under the Act.

64.    Where agreement has been reached and a Notice of Award has been issued by the Board, the applicant retains his or her full rights to accept, reject or send the award for review as provided in section 13 of the Act within the period specified in the Act.  If no written reply has been received by the Board within one calendar month of the date of receipt of the Notice of Award by the applicant, he or she will be deemed to have rejected the award.

65.    Where an applicant accepts a settlement award:
(i)    He or she must agree in writing to waive any right of action which he or she may otherwise have had against a public body or a person who has made a contribution under section 23(5) of the Act, and to discontinue any other proceedings instituted by the applicant against any such person or body that arise out of the circumstances of the application before the Board.  No redress will be paid to an applicant until such a waiver signed by the applicant has been received by the Board
(ii) Costs will be awarded on the same basis and using the same procedures as if the application had been determined following a hearing by the Board.

66. If after any settlement discussions there is no agreement, the application will proceed to hearing as if the settlement discussions had never taken place, save that the members of the Board who formed the settlement panel shall be disqualified from sitting on the division of the Board hearing the application. Further the fact of previous discussions or any details thereof shall not be made known to the Board members forming the division of the Board hearing the application.  This duty of confidentiality will extend to any legal adviser involved in the negotiations in relation to his or her contact with the new decision makers.
The hearing will not take place on the same day as the settlement discussions; a separate date for the hearing will be scheduled by the Board’s Registrar.
Applicants are specifically advised that the members of the Board who hear the application may take a different view of the application and make an award which is less than the amount of the settlement.  It is, of course, also possible that their award will be higher than the settlement amount.

67. It is to be noted that the Minister retains the right under section 13(13) of the Act to submit any award, including one arising from a settlement, to the Review Committee.

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-04-23 10:57:18)

 #164 2007-04-23 10:58:42
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

DETERMINATION OF AN APPLICATION BY THE BOARD

[For further details of the Board

s procedures, please see in particular the ‘Guide to Hearing Procedures’ published by the Board in April 2003].

Notice of hearing

68. When an application is considered ready for hearing, the Board will contact the applicant or his or her solicitor in writing.  Applicants or their solicitors will normally receive FOUR weeks” notice of any hearing date, but hearings may be arranged at shorter notice by agreement.  A request for a change of the date set for the hearing will only be considered by the Board’s Registrar in exceptional circumstances.

69. The hearing will normally be in the Board’s premises in Clonskeagh, Dublin, but arrangements may be made in the case of applicants living more than 50 miles from Dublin for hearings to be held at a more convenient venue within the State, as considered appropriate by the Board.

70.    With regard to applications from persons living outside the State, the Board has decided that it will as a general rule continue to conduct settlements and/or hearings of applications at its premises in Dublin.  In accordance with paragraph 76 below, all reasonable expenses incurred by an applicant travelling to Dublin for a successfully concluded settlement or for a hearing will be met by the Board.
Where travel to Dublin by a person living outside the State is impossible or too great a burden, the Board will make every effort to settle the application informally (that is, without the need for a hearing)  and will for this purpose enter into negotiations in Ireland and/or by telephone, mail or otherwise with a view to reaching a settlement acceptable to the applicant.  In the small number of cases where a settlement of this kind is not possible, and the applicant satisfies the Board that he or she is unable to travel to Dublin, the Board will be willing to consider an application (supported by appropriate evidence) to hear the oral evidence of the applicant at a suitable location close to his or her place of residence.
The applicant’s oral evidence is but part of the evidence to be considered by the Board in any case.  Other evidence includes the application form, medical reports and other verbal and written information.  The other evidence will be received in Ireland only.  Having heard the oral evidence of the applicant, the Board will adjourn further consideration of the application and make its decision within Ireland.

71. The written evidence (“the hearing papers”) which will be taken into account at a hearing will normally include the following:
The application form;
Written proof of identity and residence provided by the applicant;
Any document which the applicant has specifically requested the Board to obtain
and which has been provided by the appropriate person;
Any written statements given to the Board by persons giving evidence on behalf
of the applicant;
All medical reports provided by the applicant to the Board;
Any written statement given to the Board by a relevant person;
Any written statement given to the Board by a person requested by the Board to provide evidence in respect of the application;
A medical report made by the Board]s medical advisers.

After a member of the Board’s legal team has finally reviewed the application file, the applicant will be notified that the matter is now ready for hearing; this communication is called “the Completion Letter”.  The Completion Letter will contain a schedule of the documents (normally the report of the Board’s medical adviser and the response, if any, from a relevant person) and these documents, together with the application and any documents attached to the application will normally constitute all the documents which the Board will consider in determining the application.  If at any time additional documents come to the attention of the Board which appear to be relevant to the application, the Board will give the applicant an opportunity to examine and comment on them prior to the determination of the application.

The Completion Letter will also contain an indication of any particular part of the application about which the Board wishes to hear evidence or submissions. If any issue such as proof of identity, proof of residence or difficulties about written medical evidence already tendered has not been raised in the past or is not raised in the completion letter or accompanying documentation, then at the hearing that issue need not be the subject of any further evidence other than the oral evidence of the applicant.  This is to prevent the attendance of unnecessary witnesses. The Board will resist the awarding of costs to witnesses called unnecessarily. Similarly, if the Board advises in the Completion Letter that the application is suitable for settlement, it should be assumed that witnesses other than the applicant will not be necessary should the case go to hearing.

72. Applicants and their legal advisers are requested to check their hearing documents carefully and to tell the Board immediately if they think anything is wrong or missing.  In particular, please make sure that the hearing papers contain all the medical evidence pertaining to the applicant’s injuries and treatment and that this evidence is as up to date as possible.  Where an applicant is represented by a solicitor, it is the responsibility of the solicitor to ensure that he or she has at the hearing a copy of all the documents to be considered in respect of the application.

73. Where a relevant person is to attend a hearing, the Board will ensure that a copy of any appropriate document which has not previously been sent to the relevant person is made available to him or her in advance of the hearing.  It is the responsibility of the relevant person to ensure that he or she has at the hearing a copy of all the documents pertaining to him or her to be considered at that hearing.
Special requirements

74. Applicants or their legal representative should inform the Board in advance if an applicant has any special needs at the hearing, such as documents in large print, wheelchair or other access requirements or, in the case of those with hearing difficulties, a person to sign.  Please note that wheelchair users have access to the Board’s hearing rooms at Clonskeagh and the toilets are suitable for persons with disabilities. If the hearing is to be held elsewhere please advise the Board of any special access needs.
An applicant who has a hearing or reading difficulty may bring someone with him or her to the hearing or may request the Board in advance to provide someone to help.
Please note that there are no child-care facilities at any hearing centre, but the Board will pay the reasonable cost of child-care while an applicant is attending a hearing.
Attendance at hearing

75. The Board will not normally proceed with a hearing in the absence of the applicant in person.
Expenses

76. In relation to attendance at hearings, the Board will normally pay all reasonable travelling expenses, a subsistence allowance and, if a person takes time off work to attend a hearing, his or her loss of wages, as follows:
i.Travel expenses of the applicant by train or bus between his or her home and the hearing venue. Any more expensive method of travel should be approved by the Board in advance.
ii.Travel expenses of any person who needs to come with the applicant because he or she cannot travel alone or needs their assistance or moral support at the hearing.
iii.Travel expenses of any person who is giving oral evidence on behalf of the applicant (provided the Board has agreed beforehand that he or she needs to come to the hearing).
iv.The wages or salary lost by the applicant, a person giving the applicant necessary assistance or a witness on behalf of the applicant, as a result of attending the hearing.  Lost wages or salary means the actual net loss after deductions for tax and social welfare, and should be set out in a letter from the employer of the person concerned.
v.A subsistence allowance will normally be paid if the applicant is absent from home or otherwise stays at the hearing venue for more than five hours.
vi.The cost of a baby-sitter or carer actually incurred (if supported by a letter from the sitter/carer confirming the payment).
Unless agreed beforehand, the Board will not pay for the expense of a witness from outside the State.
The Board will not  pay any expenses incurred by an applicant travelling to meet his or her solicitor for consultation purposes.  The Board will consider claims for travel expenses incurred in attending medical appointments, counsellors and other professional advisers in connection with the applicant’s injuries or his or her application for redress; but it will be for the Board to decide what expenses will be allowed in respect of any individual applicant.
All claims for travel expenses should be submitted on the Expenses Form provided by the Board, and must be supported by appropriate receipts and tickets.  All expenses will be paid at the end of the process; but if travelling expenses to the hearing are a problem an advance of the applicant’s cost of travel can be applied for during the four weeks leading up to the hearing.

77.    Where the Board has permitted a relevant person to take part in a hearing, it may conduct the hearing in his or her absence if it is satisfied that the relevant person has given no reasonable excuse for non-attendance and that it would not in all the circumstances be contrary to the interests of justice to conduct the hearing in his or her absence.

Procedure at hearing

78. The Board will ensure, in so far as is practicable, that hearings are conducted as informally as is possible having regard to all the circumstances.

79. An application will be heard before a sitting of the Board consisting of a chairperson and at least one other member of the Board.  Subject to the provisions of the Act and to any Regulations made by the Minister, the procedure to be followed at any particular hearing will be a matter for the Board members conducting that hearing.  A written record will be made of the proceedings at the hearing.

80. All hearings are in private.  If an applicant is legally represented, the Board will permit a close relative of the applicant or other appropriate person to be present at the hearing only where his or her presence is considered by the Board to be necessary for the purposes of the hearing.  Where an applicant is not legally represented, the Board will normally permit him or her to bring a family member or friend to sit with the applicant during the hearing, but only for the purpose of providing moral support.
In either case, any such permission will be on the strict understanding that neither the identity of the applicant nor any evidence or material relating to the application will be disclosed in any way to any other person.

81. Subject to the provisions of the Act and of any regulations made by the Minister, the Board is entitled to determine the manner in which evidence in relation to any matter may be given.  The Board will not necessarily be bound by the formal rules of evidence which apply in civil proceedings; but any person giving oral evidence to the Board at a hearing will be required to do so on oath or affirmation.

82. For the purposes of determining an application for redress, the Board may make provision for the taking of evidence on commission in any case where“
(i)  the applicant or a person who is to give evidence on behalf of the applicant, or
(ii) a relevant person or a person who is to give evidence on behalf of a relevant person,
is unable for a reason deemed sufficient by the Board to attend the hearing of the application.  Where evidence is taken on commission, an applicant and a relevant person will have the same right of cross-examination as they have at a hearing of the application.

Evidence and submissions by or on behalf of the applicant
83.    An applicant may give oral evidence at a hearing in support of his or her application.  Where an applicant has provided written evidence in support of his or her application, the Board may require him or her to give oral evidence on any matter relevant to the application.  The Board may hear any other oral evidence for or on behalf of the applicant which it considers appropriate.  The Board cannot compel a person to give evidence, with the result that it is a matter for the applicant to make the necessary arrangements for a person to attend the hearing with a view to giving evidence on his or her behalf.  Witnesses other than the applicant will not be necessary to prove matters not flagged as live issues in the completion letter sent prior to the listing of the case for hearing.

84.    Where an application is made on behalf of a person who has died since 11 May 1999 the Board may permit the spouse or children of the deceased person to give oral evidence in respect of the identity of the deceased, his or her residence in an institution and the abuse suffered by him or her.  In addition, the Board will have regard to any appropriate medical reports or other evidence submitted on behalf of the deceased person.

85. An applicant and any person giving evidence on his or her behalf may be asked questions by the Board, by counsel or solicitor for the Board or, subject to the provisions of section 11(8) of the Act, by the legal representative of a relevant person.

86. The Board may hear counsel or solicitor for an applicant in respect of any matter before it.
Evidence and submissions by or on behalf of a relevant person

87. On application by a relevant person, the Board may allow that person or a person giving evidence on behalf of that person to give oral evidence in respect of an application.  A relevant person may, in person or through a legal representative, and with the consent of the Board, cross-examine the applicant and any person giving evidence on the applicant’s behalf but, as provided by section 11(8)(c) of the Act, only for the purposes of –
(a)    correcting any mistake of fact or misstatement relating to or affecting the relevant person made in the application,
(b)  defending the relevant person in relation to any allegation or defamatory or untrue statement, made in the application, or
(c)  protecting and vindicating the personal and other rights of the relevant person.

88. The Board will normally consent to the giving of oral evidence and such cross-examination where the relevant person has provided detailed written evidence relating to the application within two months of receipt of the notice informing him or her that an application has been made; but, save in exceptional circumstances to be determined by the Board, a relevant person will not be allowed to give oral evidence, nor to cross-examine any person, regarding matters not detailed in that written evidence.

89. A relevant person may request the Review Committee to review any refusal by the Board to allow him or her to give evidence, or to conduct a cross-examination, at a hearing.

90.  A relevant person or a person giving evidence on behalf of a relevant person may be asked questions by the Board and by counsel or solicitor for the Board.  A relevant person or a person giving evidence on his or her behalf may also be cross-examined by the applicant, in person or through a legal representative, but only with the consent of the Board.  The Board will consent to such cross-examination where it considers that it is necessary or expedient in the interests of justice.

Evidence adduced by counsel or solicitor for the Board

91. The Board will normally be represented by either a solicitor or counsel at the hearing, but in certain circumstances may sit without a legal adviser. If present, the solicitor or counsel’s role will be advisory in nature and not adversarial.  The Board’s counsel or solicitor may call such expert witnesses to give evidence at a hearing as the Board may require, but it is not the normal practice of the Board to require such a witness.

Inadmissibility of evidence in civil or criminal proceedings.

92. A statement or admission
(a) made by a person before the Board, or
(b) made by a person in a document prepared for the Board for the purposes of assessing an application and sent to the Board, a member of the Board or to a member of staff or medical adviser of the Board,
shall not be admissible as evidence against that person, or against any other person who may be liable for the acts or omissions of that person, in any criminal or civil proceedings in a court or other tribunal.
Preliminary decision

93. The Board will make a preliminary decision as to whether an applicant is entitled to an award, having regard to the matters set out in section 10(4) of the Act and, where appropriate, any matter arising out of section 11 (which deals with the appointment of medical advisers, the Board’s own counsel, witnesses called by the Board’s counsel and the evidence of relevant persons).

94. Where there is a conflict between the evidence given by the applicant and the evidence given by a relevant person which cannot be resolved to the satisfaction of the Board, the Board will request its medical advisers to prepare a report on the injuries received by the applicant as a result of the abuse.  This report is to be prepared having regard to the matters listed in section 10(12) of the Act.  The Board, having considered this report, will make a preliminary decision as to whether the applicant is entitled to an award.

95. The making of an award to an applicant, notwithstanding a conflict between the evidence given by the applicant and a relevant person, shall not constitute a finding of fact relating to fault or negligence on the part of the relevant person.

Report by Board’s medical advisers

96. Where it has made a preliminary decision that an applicant is entitled to an award, the Board may request its medical advisers to prepare a report on the injuries received by the applicant.  Such a report will not normally be requested when an application is referred for settlement; but a report will normally be sought –
(i) where an application is referred directly for hearing;
(ii) where a settlement offer is refused and the application proceeds to a hearing, and
(iii) in other cases where a member of the Board or a legal adviser to the Board deems it to be necessary.
97. When preparing this report, the medical adviser must have regard to
(a) The medical reports submitted by the applicant;
(b) The evidence provided on behalf of the applicant by his or her medical advisers;
(c) The other evidence given by the applicant;
(d) The matters specified in section 7(1)(c) of the Act, namely, that the applicant was injured while resident in an institution and that injury is consistent with any abuse that is alleged to have occurred while so resident, and
(e) Any requirement of the Board that the adviser’s report shall have regard to any matter arising out of the oral evidence given by the applicant.
The medical adviser may, where he or she considers it appropriate, carry out an assessment of the applicant and such assessment may include conducting an interview with the applicant and his or her medical advisers.

98. Where it considers it appropriate, the Board may hear the oral evidence of the applicant and his or her medical or other advisers in respect of the report made by the Board’s medical advisers.

Determination of application

99. When determining an award, the Board will have regard to
(a)the application form and all written evidence tendered by the applicant;
(b)any written  evidence provided by a relevant person;
(c)the evidence adduced at a hearing, if any;
(d)the Regulations made by the Minister concerning the assessment of the redress award, and
(e)the report prepared by the Board’s medical advisers.
The Board will not address, or make a finding of fact relating to, any issue of fault or negligence arising out of evidence given in an application, and an award made under the Act shall not be construed as a finding of fact that a person who is referred to in an application carried out the acts complained of in the application.

Written notice of decision.

100. In all cases, the applicant will be given written notice of the Board’s decision in the form of a Notice of Award.  The applicant has one calendar month from the date of receipt of the Notice of Award in which to decide whether or not to accept this award.  There is particular merit in an applicant taking legal advice on this step if he or she has not been legally represented at the hearing.
It is vital that the applicant consider and act in good time within the calendar month allowed to accept, send for review or reject the award (see further paragraphs 108-113 below). If the applicant does nothing within this calendar month, he or she will be deemed to have rejected the award and the Board cannot thereafter make an award in respect of the matters which formed the subject of the application, and the applicant will have no right to apply to the Review Committee for a review of the award.

PAYMENT OF REDRESS

Interim awards

101. The Board may make an interim award not exceeding €10,000 where –
(a) it makes a preliminary decision that the applicant is entitled to an award;
(b) it is satisfied that it is probable, having regard to all the circumstances, that an award equal to or greater than the amount of the interim award will be made in respect of the applicant, and
(c) it is of the opinion that, having regard to the age or infirmity of the applicant, the making of an interim award is appropriate in the circumstances.
The amount of any such interim award will be deducted from the final award made by the Board.

102.    Without prejudice to the right of any applicant to apply or the Board to consider any other individual circumstances within the conditions outlined in the Act, the Board has decided that it will routinely consider whether it is appropriate to make an interim award if –
(a)the applicant was born before 1 January 1931,
OR
(b)The Board is satisfied on the basis of a written report from the applicant’s regular medical practitioner that the applicant is suffering from –
1.a medical or psychiatric condition which is considered to be life-threatening,
or
2.early dementia or a dementia-like illness which will likely culminate in a reduction or loss of mental faculties in the short term which will potentially affect the applicant’s ability to process his or her claim.
Please note that from 1 January 2006, the relevant date for the purposes of (a) will be
1 January 1933.
Notification of award

103. The Board will, as soon as is practicable, notify the applicant and his or her legal representative in writing of the award.  The Board will at the same time notify the Minister of the award for the purposes of section 13(13) of the Act.
Please note that if the Minister applies to the Review Committee (see paragraph 116 below), no payment can be made pending the outcome of the review.

Lump sum payment of award

104. Payment of redress will normally take the form of a single payment of the total award to the applicant or, where he or she has died, to his or her personal representative.  But there are two circumstances in which an award may be paid in instalments or in some other way.
(a)Where an applicant does not wish to receive the entire amount of an award in a single payment, the Board, having heard the applicant or a submission on behalf of the applicant, may in its absolute discretion direct that the award be paid to the applicant in instalments.
(b)Where the Board, having heard submissions by or on behalf of the applicant and from such other person as the Board considers appropriate, is of the opinion that the applicant is incapable of managing any moneys received under an award it will direct that the award be paid to the applicant in instalments or in any other manner that is appropriate having regard to the circumstances of the applicant.  The applicant may apply to the Review Committee for a review of any such direction, but must do so within one month from the date on which the direction was given.

104A. Where the Board has made a direction in accordance with paragraph 104(a) or (b) above that an award be paid in instalments or in some other manner than by way of a single payment, the Board will direct the Department of Education and Science to make the initial payment to the applicant, and then lodge the balance of the award in the High Court, where it will be dealt with by the Accountant’s Office.  Once this has been done, the Board will have no further responsibility for the award.
The address of this office is The Accountant’s Office, Courts Service, Phoenix House, Phoenix Street North, Dublin 7.  The Office will administer the award for the benefit of the applicant in accordance with the original direction of the Board and with rules of court.
Where an award has been paid into the Accountant’s Office, an applicant may at any time apply to the High Court to vary the terms of the original direction by the Board on which the funds are administered, and the Court may do so if it considers it appropriate having regard to the circumstances of the applicant at that time. Applicants should apply in writing to the Principal Registrar, High Court, Four Courts, Inns Quay, Dublin 7 stating the reason they are seeking a variation of the terms of the award. These applications will be heard by a judge of the High Court on the next available Monday. The Court will inform applicants of the date and time of the hearings.
Applicants should note that in accordance with rules of court interest will be paid on any sum which is being administered by the High Court.

Advice on financial management of award

105. The Board will establish such procedures as it considers appropriate through which an applicant who has received an award may be given advice as to financial management of the award.  To this end the Board has entered into an agreement with Finglas Money Advice and Budgeting Service under which that Service will provide financial management advice in a generic way to persons who have received redress awards.  Further details of this service are available from the Board’s office, or from the Money Advice and Budgeting Service (MABS), telephone no. 01 864 5656.

Death of applicant

106. Where an award is made in respect of an application on behalf of
(a) a person who died after 11 May 1999 before making an application, or
(b) a person who died after making an application but before the determination of that application by the Board,
the Board will direct that the award be paid to the personal representative of the deceased, as defined in the Succession Act 1965.  Accordingly, where the deceased person made a will, the award will, on production of the grant of probate, be paid to the executor of the will; where the deceased did not make a will, the award will, on production of the letters of administration, be paid to the administrator of his or her estate.  In either case the Board will direct that the personal representative treats the award as if it had been paid to the deceased immediately prior to his or her death.

Income tax

107.    For the purposes of the Income Tax Acts, income consisting of a redress award shall be disregarded for the purposes of income tax assessment, and any payment in respect of an award shall be treated in all respects as if it were a payment made as a result of a civil action for damages in respect of personal injury.

Acceptance or rejection of award

108. Within one month from the date of receiving notice of the award, an applicant may
(a) accept or reject the award made by the Board to him or her, or
(b) submit the award to the Review Committee for a review of the amount of the award made by the Board.
If an applicant does not accept, reject or submit for review the award made to him or her within one month from the date of receiving notice of the award, he or she will be deemed to have rejected the award.  In this regard, please note the matters dealt with in paragraph 100 above.

Acceptance of award by applicant

109. Where an applicant accepts an award, he or she will be required to agree in writing –
(a) to waive any right of action arising out of the same, or substantially the same, acts complained of in the application which he or she may otherwise have had against a public body or a person who has made a contribution, under section 23(5) of the Act, to the special account to pay awards maintained by the Minister for Finance, and
(b) to discontinue any proceedings, instituted by him or her against such public body or such person, that arise out of the same, or substantially the same, acts complained of in the application.
An award will not be paid to an applicant unless he or she has complied with this requirement.
Rejection of award by applicant

110. Where an applicant does not wish to accept the award or to apply to the Review Committee for a review of the award, he or she should notify the Board in writing that he or she rejects the award.  An award will be deemed to have been rejected if the applicant does not accept, send for review or reject that award within one month from the date of receiving the Notice of Award.
Where an applicant rejects, or is deemed to have rejected, an award, and proceeds with a civil action arising out of the same, or substantially the same, acts complained of in the application for redress, the Minister, a public body or any other party will not in such proceedings rely for the purposes of the Statute of Limitations on the period between the date of the application to the Board and the date on which proceedings before the Board (or the Review Committee, as the case may be) were terminated.

Death of applicant before acceptance or rejection of award

110A Where an award has been made by the Board, but the applicant dies before deciding whether to accept or reject that award, or to submit it to the Review Committee,
(a)if the applicant is survived by a spouse or a child, he or she may proceed with the application and make a decision as to the award.  If there is more than one such person, the Board will determine who is to act on behalf of the applicant.
(b)if the applicant is not survived by a spouse or a child, the applicant will be deemed to have accepted the award and the Board will direct that the award is paid to the applicant’s personal representatives.

Legal costs

111. As a result of section 27(1) of the Act, the Board will pay to an applicant to whom an award has been made either by the Board or on review, a reasonable amount for legal expenses incurred by the applicant in the preparation and presentation of the application to the Board.  Section 27(1) further provides that these expenses/costs should be agreed between the Board and the applicant (or the applicant’s solicitors or other representatives).  If the costs cannot be agreed between the Board and the applicant, then the costs will be taxed before a Taxing Master of the High Court.  Once the costs have been referred to the Taxing Master, submissions will be made to the Taxing Master on behalf of the Board and the applicant and the Taxing Master will ultimately decide what costs will be paid by the Board to the applicant and/or his or her solicitors/representatives.  It should be noted that the costs will not be paid until an application has been finally determined and an award has been made.

In addition to the costs relating to an application to the Board, it should also be noted that section 27(2) of the Act provides that the Board shall also pay to an applicant who accepts an award, the costs of any associated court proceedings which were instituted by that applicant against a public body or a person who had made a contribution to the special account established under Section 23 of the Act, provided that the applicant has signed the necessary Form of Waiver in respect of those proceedings.  The Form of Waiver is quite simply, written confirmation by the applicant that he or she will not pursue any right of action which the applicant may have against a public body or a person who has made a contribution to the fund or in a case where proceedings have already been issued, the applicant is agreeing not to go ahead with those proceedings.

As in the case of an application to the Board, the applicant’s costs of the Court proceedings should be agreed between the Board and the applicant (or the applicant’s solicitors or other representative); however, if the costs cannot be agreed between the Board and the applicant, then the costs will be taxed before a Taxing Master of the High Court.
REFUSAL OF APPLICATION BY THE BOARD
112. The Act requires an applicant to establish to the satisfaction of the Board
(a) his or her identity;
(b) that he or she was resident in an institution during his or her childhood, and
(c) that he or she was injured while so resident and that injury is consistent with any abuse that is alleged to have occurred while so resident.
Where the Board decides that one or more of these matters have not been established to its satisfaction, it will notify the applicant as soon as practicable of its decision and state the reasons for so deciding.  The applicant may submit that decision to the Review Committee for review.

RIGHT TO APPLY TO THE REVIEW COMMITTEE

The applicant’s right to apply to the Review Committee

113. An applicant may submit for review by the Residential Institutions Redress Review Committee:
(a) the amount of an award made by the Board,
(b) a direction by the Board under section 13(8)(b) of the Act that the award is to be paid in instalments or otherwise than by way of a lump sum to an applicant incapable of managing his or her own affairs, and
(c) a decision by the Board that one or more of the matters set out in paragraph 112 have not been established to its satisfaction.

Any submission to the Review Committee must be made in writing and received by the Committee within one month from the date of receiving notice of the award, direction or decision of the Board.  The Review Committee is wholly independent of the Board.  On a review of the amount of the award made by the Board, the Review Committee may accept that award or increase or reduce it.

114. The Board will send the applicant a copy of the appropriate form for submitting the case to the Review Committee when it notifies the applicant of its award, direction or decision as to the matters listed in paragraph 113.

114A. Where an applicant has submitted an award for review by the Review Committee, he or she may, not later than two weeks from the date of the submission, withdraw the award from the review process by notifying the Review Committee of his or her wish to do so.  Where an award has been withdrawn from the Review Committee in this way, the applicant is deemed to have accepted the award made by the Board.

115. The address of the Review Committee is:

First Floor, Frederick House, 19 South Frederick St., Dublin 2.
Tel: (01) 635 0040
Email: reviewcommittee@frederickhouse.ie

The Minister’s right to apply to the Review Committee

116. The Minister may, within one month of the making of an award by the Board by way of settlement or following a hearing, submit the amount of that award for review by the Review Committee.
Appendix I *

 #Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Government and Freedom of Information

The following document is a direct copy of the contractual details that underpin the arrangement between the Catholic Church and the Irish Government. This arrangement is the subject of a considerable amount of public debate and has given rise to public concern, particularly amongst those who were abused, while in the institutional care of various religious orders throughout Ireland.

INDEMNITY DEAL REVISITED

THIS DEED made the 5th day of’ June Two Thousand and Two

BETWEEN THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE , Upper Merrion Street, Dublin 2 and THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION AND SCIENCE, Tyrone House, Marlborough Street, Dublin 2 (hereinafter called “the State party” which expression shall include them and each of them) of the One Part and EACH OF THE PARTIES LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE (hereinafter together called the “Contributing Congregations”) of the Other SCHEDULE (hereinafter together called the “Contributing Congregations”) of the Other Part.

WHEREAS: –

A. The State party has established a Statutory Redress Scheme (“the Scheme”) under the Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002 (“the Act”) to make financial awards to assist in the recovery of persons who as children were resident in certain institutions and who suffer or who have suffered injuries that are consistent With abuse while so resident.

B . The Contributing Congregations are desirous of joining with the State party -to make a contribution to file Scheme.

C. The Contributing Congregations are prepared to undertake to contribute to a special account to be established pursuant to section 23 of the Act (hereinafter called “the special account”)

D. The contribution of the Contributing Congregations will be paid into the special account in the amount and in the manner agreed between the parties on the date of commencement of the said Scheme.

E. This Deed shall not be construed as an admission of liability by either party with regard to any alleged injury suffered by any applicant (within the meaning of the Act).

F. Any payment made under the Scheme shall be without admission of liability or responsibility for any alleged acts of abuse and no liability or responsibility is or will be apportioned between the said parties or any other person arising out of any sums paid from the special account under the said Scheme.

NOW THIS INDENTURE WITNESSETH as follows:

1. In pursuance of this Deed and in consideration of the covenants herein contained the State Party hereby covenants and agrees to fully and completely indemnify each of the Contributing Congregations in respect of:

(A) each and every matter which is the subject of

(i) an award, interim award or settlement of an application (within the meaning of the Act) (“an Application”) made by the Residential lnstitutions Redress Board) or the Residential Institutions Redress Review Committee (in each case’ within the meaning of the Act.), or

2. (ii) any determination of a court or court award or settlement in respect of any action arising out of the same circumstances as gave rise to an Application where any such determination of a court or court award or settlement is made subsequent to an applicant’s rejection of an award made by the Residential Institutions Redress Board or the Residential Institutions Redress Review Committee;

(B) each and every matter in respect of which court proceedings were issued prior to the date hereof and such matter arises out of any circumstances which could give rise to an Application, which matters are listed in Folder 1 attached hereto;

(C) each and every matter:

(i) in respect of which there are threats of litigation (whether oral or Written), which matters are listed in Folder 2 attached hereto;

(ii) in respect of which there is a request for records/information (whether oral, or written), which matters are listed in Folder 3 attached hereto; or

(iii) which is the subject matter of evidence to the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse and the record number of which is listed in Folder 4 attached hereto,

where such matter arises out of circumstances which could give rise to an Application; PROVIDED HOWEVER that this Indemnity shall only extend to a matter falling within the terms of this part (C) where proceedings are issued in respect of such matter before the expiry of the period constituting the aggregate of the period and any extension thereof (the “Statutory Period”) in which Applications may be made as contemplated by the Act and the period of three years immediately following thereafter; and

(D) each and every matter of which the State party does not have notice on the date hereof:

(i) in respect of which there are, or may in the future be, threats of litigation (whether oral or written) in relation to alleged abuse; or

(ii) in respect of which there is, or may in the future be, a request for records/information (whether oral or written) in relation to alleged abuse;

(iii) which is, or may in the future be, the subject matter of evidence to the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse; or

(iv) in respect of which a Contributing Congregation has inadvertently omitted to submit for inclusion in any one of Folders 1 to 4 (as referred to above) and which matter could properly have been included in such Folder on the date hereof,

where such matter arises out of circumstances which occurred prior to the date hereof and which could give rise to an Application; PROVIDED HOWEVER that this Indemnity shall only extend to a matter falling within the terms of this part (D) where the State Party ,is put on notice in writing of such matter within the Statutory Period and where proceedings are issued in respect of such matter before the expiry of the period constituting the aggregate of the Statutory Period and the period of three years immediately following thereafter .

Without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing such indemnity shall extend to all loss, claims, damages, demands, expenses, costs (including legal costs), and charges arising therefrom, of any kind whatsoever awarded to any claimant by any court or otherwise including interest thereon and the State Party shall at the request of any person or persons covered by this Indemnity take over, or arrange for the taking over of the conduct of the defence of such claim or proceedings and/or take any steps necessary for ensuring that the said indemnity is fully effective. For the avoidance of doubt the indemnity extends to any claim or proceedings brought by any person against the persons mentioned in Clause 3 below.

2. The State Party hereby acknowledges and agrees that the said indemnity shall extend to:

(i) the institutions listed in the Schedule to the Act;

(ii) any place, within the contemplation of section 1 of the Act, at which abuse took place and any institution which would be eligible for insertion into the Schedule to the Act by way of an Order of the Minister for Education and Science under section 4(1) of the Act, each such institution being hereinafter referred to for the purposes of this Agreement as an “Institution”. The State party further agrees that all such institutions as referred to in sub-paragraph (ii) above as would be eligible for insertion into the Schedule to the Act by way of an Order of the Minister for Education and Science under section 4(1) of the Act shall be submitted for inclusion in any such Order which may be proposed.

3. The State party hereby further acknowledges that the said indemnity shall extend to each and every member, and former or deceased member, of any religious body or Congregation of the Contributing Congregations, including any group of persons forming part of such religious body or Congregation or any constituent body thereof, and to every person engaged in the management, administration, operation, supervision or regulation of an Institution, and to every person otherwise employed (whether directly or indirectly) by a Contributing Congregation in or associated with an Institution.

4. Without prejudice to the foregoing, the State Party hereby acknowledges that any person entitled to the benefit of such indemnity shall stand discharged from being bound to defend any such claims or proceedings and shall not be answerable for any loss, claims, damages, demands, expenses, costs (including legal costs), or charges arising therefrom, including interest thereon and shall be held harmless and kept indemnified by the said State Party .

5. A. The State party shall, at the request of any person or persons against whom such claim is made whether in legal proceedings or otherwise (“Proceedings”) take over the defence of such claim provided however that where the defence is taken over as aforesaid the State Party will in defending the proceedings have regard to the provisions of Paragraph B of this Clause 5 and the,State Party shall inform the relevant Contributing Congregation of the proceedings to the extent necessary for the purposes of those provisions, but shall have absolute discretion (subject to the provisions of Paragraph B of this Clause 5) as to the conduct of the defence of the proceedings and as to whether and on what terms proceedings should be settled or compromised.

B. Where in respect of any Proceedings a Contributing Congregation wishes to vindicate its reputation or the reputation of any person as contemplated by Clause 3 above, then it may require, by notice in writing to the State Party, that the State party return to it the responsibility for carriage of the Proceedings, in which case this Indemnity shall cease to apply in respect of the subject matter of those Proceedings.

C. Where a person as contemplated by Clause 3 above requests that a Contributing Congregation take over responsibility for carriage of any Proceedings, and the said Contributing Congregation refuses to do so, the said Contributing Congregation shall indemnify the State party for 50% of all damages which may be awarded by a court or made by way of settlement and 50% of all costs (including legal costs) and expenses incurred by the State Party in defending any claim by that person against the State party in any proceedings arising from the taking over of responsibility for carriage of the Proceedings.

6. The Contributing Congregations by virtue of these premises, hereby severally covenant with the State Party:

a) To undertake to provide to the State Party details of any existing or future legal claims for compensation covered by the indemnity of which they are aware.

b) To undertake to assist the State Party in the defence of claims which come within the Scheme made in any legal proceedings that are now in being or may be issued in the future provided such claim is in respect of abuse allegedly suffered prior to the date of the introduction of the Scheme.

In relation to the defence of any such claim as contemplated by sub-paragraph (b ) above, the relevant Contributing Congregation will bear its own costs incurred in respect of the retrieval of records in relation to the defence of such claim and in providing any assistance reasonably required by the State party for the purposes of defending, such claim, which assistance, for the avoidance of doubt, shall involve identification of relevant witnesses to the extent known by the relevant Contributing Congregation and liaising with such potential witnesses.

7. The contributions of the Contributing Congregations contemplated by this Indemnity shall comprise and shall take into account the following:

(i) a cash payment to the State party amounting in aggregate to the sum of 41.l4 million, of which 12.7 million shall be used by the State party for educational programmes for former residents of institutions and their families. The sum of 12,654,000 shall be paid to the State party on the execution hereof and the balance of the said sum of 41.14 million by four equal instalments on the 5th of September 2002, the 5th of December 2002, the 5th of February 2003 and the 5 of May 2003;

(ii) transfers of real property which have been made to the State party or State agencies or local authorities or Voluntary Organisations (as defined in Clause 9 below) since 11th May 1999 to the extent that the value of same amounts in aggregate to the sum of 40.32 million. The aggregate value of the particular properties so transferred by the Contributing Congregations is more particularly identified in Part 1 of the SECOND SCHEDULE;

(iii) transfers of real property which are to be made to the State Party (or its nominees(s)) as soon as practicable following the execution hereof to the extent that the value of same amounts to 36.54 million. The aggregate value of the particular properties to be so transferred by the Contributing Congregations is more particularly identified in Part II of the SECOND SCHEDULE.

(iv)counselling and other support services for former residents of institutions and their families already provided or to be provided to the extent that the value of same amounts to 10 million.

8 Pursuant to the commitment referred to herein of the Contributing Congregations to transfer cash and/or real property to the State Party in consideration for the Indemnity given by the State Party hereunder, where a Contributing Congregation proposes to transfer a real property asset to the State Party, the State party shall have the right (for a period of nine months from the date hereof) to refuse to accept a transfer to it of any such real property asset where in its reasonable opinion the said asset will be of no use or benefit to the State or any State agency (which refusal and the reason therefor shall be notified to the said Contributing Congregation in writing). In the event of any such refusal, however, the relevant Contributing Congregation shall have the right to replace such real property asset with cash or other real property assets (at its sole discretion). The said right of refusal shall expire nine months from the date hereof. The provisions of this Clause 8 shall apply to a proposed transfer which is in substitution for a transfer which has been refused in the same way as they apply to the original transfer.

9 The valuation of any real property assets which have been, or which it is proposed will be, transferred to the State party or any State agency or local authority or voluntary organisation providing health or social services (“Voluntary Organisation”) by a Contributing Congregation as contemplated by this Indemnity shall be determined by agreement of the State party and the said Contributing Congregation in consultation with their respective valuers, and in default of such agreement shall be determined by an independent valuer to be appointed on the application of either the State Party or the said Contributing Congregation by the Chairman for the time being of the Society of Chartered Surveyors. Such independent valuer shall act as an expert and not as an arbitrator, and his determination shall be final and binding on the State party and the said Contributing Congregation and shall be in writing stating the reasons therefor. Prior to such independent valuer making such determination, however, each of the State party and the said Contributing Congregation shall have the right to make written representations to the independent valuer. The costs of the said independent valuer shall be borne equally by the State party and the said Contributing Congregation. The valuation to be determined by the State party and the relevant Contributing Congregation or by the above-mentioned independent valuer (as the case may be) shall be the current open market value of the relevant real property asset as at the date of its transfer to the State party or any State agency or local authority or Voluntary Organisation (as the case may be) in the’ case of real property assets transferred prior to the date hereof, and as at the date hereof in the case of all other real property assets. The State party and the relevant Contributing Congregation or the independent valuer (as the case may be), in making such determination, shall have due regard to the current Practice Statements and Guidance Notes contained in the Appraisal and Valuation Manual issued by the Society of Chartered Surveyors.

In any valuation exercise in respect of any real property asset which has been, or which it is proposed will be, transferred to the State Party or any State agency or local authority or Voluntary Organisation by a Contributing Congregation as contemplated by this Indemnity, the valuation shall (pursuant to the protocol in this regard previously agreed between the Department of Education and Science and the diocesan authorities or any other protocols (if any) previously agreed by the State Party or any State agency and the Contributing Congregations or their representatives where applicable) take account of any grants or other payments provided by the State or any State agency to the said Contributing Congregation for the acquisition, development or improvement of the said real property asset.

10. Pursuant to the commitment referred to herein of the Contributing Congregations to provide real property assets to the State Party in consideration for the Indemnity given by the State Party hereunder, if it should transpire that the aggregate value of all real property assets so provided by the Contributing Congregations (their “Real Property Amount”) is found to fall short of the aggregate value of all real property assets which they have committed to provide to the State party or any State agency or local authority or Voluntary Organisation as referred to in Parts I and II of the SECOND SCHEDULE (their “Committed Real Property Amount”), then the Contributing Congregations shall be entitled to make up the shortfall in cash and/or non-cash assets (comprising real property) as soon as practicable without prejudice to the continuing efficacy of the said Indemnity but not later than six months from the date such shortfall is ascertained and notified in writing by the State party to the Contributing Congregations. The obligation of the Contributing Congregations to make up the said shortfall shall be a joint obligation, and any apportionments between the Contributing Congregations which become necessary as a consequence of their meeting that obligation shall be a matter for the Contributing Congregations inter se and not the State Party.

11. If it should transpire that the value of the Contributing Congregations’ Real Property Amount is found to exceed the value of their Committed Real Property Amount, the State Party shall as soon as practicable thereafter but not later than six months after the excess is ascertained and at the option of the State Party either make a refund of the excess to such one or more of the Contributing Congregations as are nominated for the purpose by the Contributing Congregations jointly or elect to forego the transfer of a real property asset from any one or more of the Contributing Congregations equal to the value of the excess. Any apportionments between the Contributing Congregations which become necessary as a consequence of such election to forego a transfer shall be a matter for the Contributing Congregations inter se and not the State Party .

12. Where any non-cash asset comprising real property was transferred at any time since 11th May 1999 to the State or any State agency or local authority or Voluntary Organisation by a Contributing Congregation free of charge or below open market value, the State Party hereby agrees that the open market value of such asset or the difference between the consideration paid and the open market value as at the date of transfer shall be taken into account when assessing the value of the Contributing Congregations’ Real Property Amount. The open market value of such real property so transferred shall be ascertained in accordance with the provisions of Clause 9 above.

In the case of real property in this category transferred since 11 th May 1999 to a Voluntary Organisation, the real property concerned must be subject to a restriction on transfer or alienation for a period of twenty-five years from the date of this Indemnity without the prior consent in writing of the Minister for Finance (the “Restriction”). The Restriction shall be disregarded in determining the value of such real property under Clause 9 thereof. In the event of any Contributing Congregation failing to procure the Restriction on any real property transferred to a Voluntary Organisation, the relevant Contributing Congregation shall be entitled to replace the relevant real property asset with an alternative real property asset (to which the Restriction shall apply) or cash of an equivalent value.

13. Any real property which it is proposed will be transferred to the State Party by a Contributing Congregation as contemplated by this Indemnity must be of good and marketable title (being of a title commensurate with prudent standards of current conveyancing practice in Ireland). Good and marketable title shall be established either by way of a certificate of title from the Contributing Congregation’s solicitor or by way of an investigation of title by the Chief State Solicitor (at the Chief State Solicitor’s option). In default of agreement between the State Party and/or Chief State Solicitor and the said Contributing Congregation as to the quality of the title to any real property, the matter may be referred for determination, on the application of either the State Party or the said Contributing Congregation, to the Conveyancing Committee of the Law Society of Ireland without prejudice to the entitlement of either party to have the matter determined by a Court.

In the event that good and marketable title cannot be established, however, the relevant contributing Congregation shall have the right to replace the relevant real property asset with cash or other real property assets (at its sole discretion). The provisions of this Clause 13 shall apply to any proposed real property replacement.

14. In respect of any real property which it is proposed will be transferred to the State Party by a Contributing Congregation as contemplated by this Indemnity, each such party shall bear its own costs (including legal costs) in respect of the investigation of title, valuation and transfer of such property.

15. The Deed shall constitute a voluntary agreement and shall not be construed as a contribution, payment or compromise for the purposes of the Civil Liability Acts 1961-1964 or otherwise.

16. In the event of any dispute arising out of this Deed (save under Clauses 9 and 13 hereof), including without limitation as to whether any claim falls within the scope of this Indemnity, (a “Dispute”), the authorised representatives of each of the State party and the relevant Contributing Congregation shall meet and endeavour to resolve the said Dispute in good faith and in an expeditious manner.

Failing such resolution within a period of 30 days from the commencement of the Dispute ( or such period as may be agreed by the relevant parties ), the Dispute shall be referred on the application of either party to an independent person to be appointed by agreement of the parties or failing that by the President for the time being of the Law Society of Ireland. The Expert.

The Expert shall be entitled in rendering his decision to take into account only such evidence as the parties shall have put forward to such Expert. Any such decision shall be final and binding on the parties (save in the case of manifest error) and shall be given by the Expert acting as expert and not as arbitrator. The Expert shall give his decision in writing stating the reasons therefor.

The costs of the Expert shall be borne equally by the State Party and the relevant Contributing Congregation unless the Expert shall decide that one party has acted unreasonably, in which case he shall have discretion as to costs.

17. Any notice to a party under this Deed shall be in writing signed by or on behalf of the party giving it and shall, unless delivered to a party personally, be left at, or sent by prepaid recorded delivery to the address of the party as set out below or as otherwise notified in writing from time to time:-

The State party

Address: Secretary General, Department of Education and Science, Marlborough Street, Dublin 1.

The Contributing Congregations

In respect of each Contributing Congregation, the congregational superior/leader of that Contributing Congregation.

A notice shall be deemed to have been served at the time of delivery, if served persona1ly, or 48 hours after posting, if served by prepaid recorded delivery.

Where a Contributing Congregation becomes aware of any claim which could give rise to a matter which lies within the scope of this Indemnity, such Contributing Congregation shall notify the State Party of such claim as soon as practicable after becoming so aware.

Where the State party becomes aware of any claim which could give rise to a matter which lies within the scope of this Indemnity, the State party shall notify the Contributing Congregation the subject of such claim as soon as practicable after becoming so aware (which awareness, for the avoidance of doubt, shall be deemed to constitute notice for the purposes of Clause I above).

IN WITNESS whereof the parties hereto have hereunto set their respective hands and seals the day and year first herein WRITTEN.

FIRST SCHEDULE

List of Contributing Congregations

Congregation of the Sisters of Mercy (South Central Province)

Congregation of the Sisters of Mercy (Northern Province)

Congregation of the Sisters of Mercy (Western Province)

Congregation of the Sisters of Mercy (Southern Province)

Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul

Congregation of Christian Brothers

Congregation of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd

Congregation of Presentation Brothers

Institute of Charity (Rosminians)

Congregation of Oblates of Mary Immaculate

Hospitaller Order of St. John of God

Religious Sisters of Charity

Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of Refuge

Congregation of the Sisters of St.Clare

Institute of St. Louis

Union of the Presentation Sisters

Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools (De La Salle)

Dominican Friars’ Order of Preachers

Daughters of the Heart of Mary

Congregation of the Brothers of Charity

Congregation of the Sisters of Nazareth

SECOND SCHEDULE

Real Property transferred since 11th Mav 1999

Contributing Congregation Property Value

Congregation of the Sisters of Mercy

Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul

Congregation of Christian Brothers

Oblates of Mary Immaculate

Religious Sisters of Charity

Congregation of Our Lady of Charity of Refuge

Congregation of the Sisters of St. Clare

Union of the Presentation: Sisters
Total: Euro 40,320,000

Real Property yet to be transferred

Contributing Congregation Property Value
Congregation of the Sisters of Mercy

Congregation of Christian Brothers

Institute of Charity (Rosminians )

Oblates of Mary Immaculate

Hospitaller Order of St. John of God

Religious Sisters of Charity

Congregation of the Brothers of Charity

Congregation of the Sisters of Nazareth
Total: Euro 36,540,000

Offline

#166 2007-04-30 07:59:00

Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Bertie Ahern on Sunday called a general election for May 24, seeking a third term as Taoiseach, something not achieved since Eamon de Valera, the pre-eminent leader of post Independence Ireland, led the country uninterrupted for the period 1932-48.

Polls suggest it will be one of the closest races in years, with current predictions putting the outgoing coalition of Mr Ahern’s populist Fianna Fail and the right of centre Progressive Democrats of Michael McDowell a few seats short of an overall majority in the 166-member Dail.

Despite presiding over a still buoyant economy, together with the historic progress made in bringing a lasting settlement to the conflict in Northern Ireland, polls suggest there is a mood for change.

A poll on Friday by TNS mrbi for the Irish Times put Fianna Fail on 34 per cent, just 3 points ahead of Fine Gael, the main opposition party led by Enda Kenny. At the time of the 2002 general election, Fianna Fail won 40 per cent of votes, while Fine Gael won 23 per cent.

Richard Sinnott, politics professor at University College Dublin, says this is “dangerous territory for Fianna Fail, because it means the only party they can do business with is Labour.”

Mr Kenny and Pat Rabbitte, the Labour leader enter the race on a joint policy platform pledged to form an alternative coalition, but in interviews Mr Rabbitte has studiously avoided ruling out the possibility of a coalition with Fianna Fail should Labour and Fine Gael fail to win sufficient seats.

In 2002, Fianna Fail and the PDs, were the first government since 1969 to win a second term, a reminder of the volatility of the Irish electorate.

The uncertainty of the current contest means the four week campaign has assumed a greater importance than usual.

Fianna Fail believe this plays into the hands of Mr Ahern, a natural on the hustings, who by his own account was shinning up lampposts as a schoolboy to erect posters for his local candidate.

Fianna Fail is widely expected to make Mr Ahern the centre of its campaign, hoping to contrast the Taoiseach’s experience with that of Mr Kenny, who although he has been a Dail member since 1975, has served just once as minister in John Bruton’s Rainbow coalition in 1995-97 when he was in charge of tourism.

Mr Ahern on the other hand also seems intent on making Northern Ireland – and his role in achieving the breakthrough there – an election issue, despite some polling evidence that it is a turn-off for many ordinary voters.

He plans to take time out on May 8 to witness with Tony Blair, the UK prime minister, the formal setting up of a power sharing executive between Ian Paisley’s Democratic Unionists and Gerry Adams’ Sinn Fein party.

He is also due to address the two houses of Parliament in London on May 15, at Mr Blair’s invitation ‘the first time such an honour has been accorded an Irish prime minister. Trevor Sargent, Greens leader, this week predicted his party would be king makers in the new Dail.

The only party combination at this stage which appears to have been ruled out by all the main parties is one involving Gerry Adams’ Sinn Fein party, which polls suggest could take about 10 per cent of the vote.

But commentators say in highlighting the outgoing government’s achievements in Northern Ireland, Mr Ahern is in danger of giving a leg up to Sinn Fein too, at a time when Fianna Fail is competing with Sinn Fein in several urban constituencies for the republican, working class vote.

The campaign is already underway with a row over stamp duty on house purchases by first time buyers, an issue which is important for younger voters, whom all parties have identified as the key constituency in this election.

In calling the election yesterday, opposition politicians say Mr Ahern may have also been motivated to prevent any possibly embarrassing revelations at the planned session of the tribunal looking into corruption in public life, which will now be delayed until after the formation of the new government.  By John Murray Brown in Dublin. 29th April 2007

 #167 2007-05-03 04:09:33
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Government appoints largest number of new judges.

The Irish Times

The Cabinet has approved the appointment of 17 new judges to serve in the High Court, the Circuit Court and the District Court

Approval was also given by the Government at its meeting yesterday for the appointment of a new chairman of the Residential Institutions Redress Board.

It is understood the decision represents the largest number of judicial appointments ever at a single time.

Six of the judges are to be appointed to the High Court, five to the Circuit Court and six to the District Court.

Among those appointed to the High Court are former Fine Gael Minister George Birmingham and well-known solicitor “Garret Sheehan”.

Mr Birmingham served as a junior Minister in the Fine Gael/Labour administration in the mid-1980s.

A senior counsel since 1999, his areas of practice include administrative law/judicial review, criminal law and general practice.

He is a prominent prosecutor in criminal cases.

Mr Sheehan has one of the largest criminal law defence practices in the country.

He is only the second solicitor to be appointed directly to the High Court. John Edwards SC has also been appointed to the High Court.

A senior counsel since 1998, his areas of practice include administrative law/judicial review and criminal law.

is areas of specialisation include arbitration and dispute resolution.

The Government has also appointed “Mary Irvine”( The very person that said “Taoiseach’s apology is bigger that the problem itself”) as a judge to the High Court.

She has been a senior counsel since 1996. Circuit Court judge Bryan McMahon has also been appointed as a judge to the High Court.

A judge of the Circuit Court since 1999, he is also currently chairman of the Abbey Theatre.

Formerly a solicitor and legal academic, Judge McMahon has co-authored a number of legal textbooks.

Cork-based senior counsel Patrick McCarthy has also been appointed to the High Court bench.

The Cabinet has also appointed the former president of the law society, Gerry Griffin, as a judge of the Circuit Court. From Dublin, he has a solicitor’s practice in Terenure which specialises in personal injuries and civil litigation.

Petria McDonnell, a partner in McCann Fitzgerald, has also been appointed as a Circuit Court judge.

She is an expert in maritime law and mediation and arbitration.

She is described as a very experienced practitioner in civil litigation, and was one of the first female partners in McCann Fitzgerald. Rory McCabe, Tony Hunt and Martin Nolan complete the list.

Among the District Court judges appointed is John Lindsay.

He is the son of former Fine Gael Minister and master of the High Court Patrick Lindsay. By Martin Wall

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-05-03 04:11:43)

 #168 2007-05-15 05:20:33
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Christine Buckley should, BY THE GOVERNMENT be made Senator.

As she invariably along with others laid the foundation stone for people like Colm O’ Gorman.

Christine ON BALANCE as well spent her “whole childhood “ in GOLDENBRIDGE Institution.

In my evaluation she is as much deserving – and even more so of the same government honour.

The government must see the balance is redressed in Christine’s favour’

Mr. O’ Gorman has never once recognised my twenty months’ presence outside the Dail.

Despite being on innumerable occasions in [Buswell’s Hotel].

Therefore, for that reason alone I personally do not respect him on that level.

I would sincerely like to thank Mick Waters for the countless times he has visited me.

Christine Buckley/Bernadette Fahy has neither – ever at the Dail made their presence felt.

Mary Hanafin indubitably saw that that would not transpire.

Setanta, you say, thus…

“Colm O’ Gorman is co-habitting with another man, and was “married” to this man in England, and is rearing two adopted children, a boy and a girl, while maintaining his “marriage” relationship with this other man”.

Setanta, I say – alas,

Regarding Colm O’ Gorman’s cohabitation with another man and the rearing of two foster children [not adopted], I am absolutely ‘over the moon’.

There is none who could identify with the fact that he has taken on two susceptible, DEFENCELESS children.

Than those like Christine Buckley and me.

Who as tiny tots [Sisters of no Mercy] in the institutional organism were reared – ?

Children like us then would have longed/pined, like Colm’s/partner foster children to have had the benevolence, compassion, munificence and the loving warmth of a foster/adopted family.

I AM THOROUGHLY DISAPPOINTED THAT HE DID NOT SPEAK OUT A LITTLE LOUDER ABOUT THE GAY ADOPTION ISSUE WHEN HE SOME WHILE AGO WAS ON THE PAT KENNY SHOW.  He had an excellent opportunity.  I KNOW IT WAS NOT EASY.

A FANTASTIC MEDIA PROSPECT WAS LOST.

As for his life in England prior to 1 in 4 -well, I CANDIDLY AND BEYOND DOUBT believe that in actuality that is his own private matter.

Concerning his probability OF SUCCEEDING as a Progressive Democrat [PD] candidate in this coming Thursday’s Election, well, I do not hold out too much for him on that score.

I RECKON HE would have done exceedingly well in WEXFORD TOWN. As GOREY after-all IS THE HOME-turf OF FF.

We are here – talking RURAL IRELAND.

Rural PEOPLE, albeit unfortunately have, even at the worst of times the propensity/disposition/ leanings towards family loyalties.

The dichcotomy is unreasonable of course.  BELIEVE ME…….. I do not want, for him,  to put a dampener on things. .

Everything still hangs in the balance.

NEVERTHELESS, I do know the mindset of country folk, DOWN THAT PART AS nearly all belonging to me were/are “scalder’s”.

Wexford town was/is hungry for adjustment in all things pertaining to religious issues.

As alleged abuse of all descriptions occurred ON A GARGANTUAN SCALE in the Ferns DIOCESE.

Which IS now sadly to say – APPARENTLY, WORLD WIDE RENOWNED = Ferns Report.

If gay couples had arrived in Goldenbridge INSTITUTION TO TAKE CHILDREN out INTO THEIR FAMILIES.

I would have been first in the queue.

The Catholic Church recently in Great Britain challenged Gay adoption issues and very nearly won out.

I AM THANKFUL THAT IT DID NOT. USING POLITICAL THREATS WAS THE LAST CARD IT HAD TO PLAY WITH AND IT LOST OUT.

Gott sei dank.

I AM AN AUTONOMOUS PERSON COMBATING outside the Dail AN INDEPENDENT CAUSE.

And would like to say

IF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE A GRIEVANCE/gripe WITH THE GOVERNMENT, WHY DONT THEY TAKE THEIR BEDS – LIKE I DID, AND LAY THEM OUTSIDE THE DAIL.

Begrudgery, [which THE Irish in general are notorious] oftentimes tell me “I AM ONLY THERE FOR MYSELF”.

My answer TO THEM IS: “HOW ON EARTH’S NAME CAN I personally BE OUTSIDE THE DAIL ON BEHALF OF OTHER PEOPLE”. That would be ludicrously impossible.

One would have to know the ins/outs of their cases.

I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR WHAT PERSONALLY HAPPENED TO ME.

I AM OUTSIDE THE Dail BECAUSE OF A criminal personal injury which occurred in an institution which was owned by the government.

I TOOK IT FOR GRANTED THAT WHEN THE GOVERMNMENT SET UP A SCHEME FOR THOSE WHO WERE IN INSTITUTIONS that it would deal with it – but that never happened.

It is horses for courses.

People who spent their whole lives in institutions are very vulnerable people and are easy targets for people to knock down.

If I HAD been EDUCATED in Goldenbridge Industrial School I would have had this matter dealt with YEARS AGO as I would have had the wherewithal.

It has not been easy and I WOULD NOT WISH THIS SORT OF PROTEST ON MY WORST ENEMY.

I HAVE BEEN SHUNNED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE AND HAVE BEEN TREATED BADLY BY THOSE WHOM I had expected support.

As I SAID BEFORE WHEN THE PUSH COMES TOP SHOVE THE TOUGH GET GOING.

They all departed and left me hanging out to dry.

So thank you Mick Waters of Soca for your visits during my darkest moments. I REALLY APPRECIATED THEM.

INCIDENTALLY, I MUST MAKE IT SUCCINCTLY CLEAR

I HAVE NO ‘PERSONAL’ QUALMS WITH REGARDS COLM O’ GORMAN.

IN FACT, I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR THE POSITION HE HAS TAKEN REGARDING THE FOSTERING – WITH HIS PARTNER – OF TWO SUSCEPTIBLE AND DEFENCELESS CHILDREN.

Setanta, you say:

“Perhaps Christine Buckley would like to give an opinion on the mat”

I say, alas,

I doubt very much if an opinion will by Christine be on the mat – given.

Christine ONLY speaks publicly on behalf of the RIRB issues.

As for those who abuse and denigrate her on a regular basis – they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They remind me of those religious freaks in far off flung countries who think that women arte possessions of theirs to be treated and beaten by them at every hands turn.

To them I SAY EVERY DOG HAS ITS DAY.

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-05-21 04:28:23)

 #169 2007-05-17 13:35:20
Setanta 
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Statement 14
“Senator” Colm O’Gorman believes that one in four people have suffered abuse as children.

Colm O’Gorman is co-habitating with another man, and was “married” to this man in England, and is rearing two adopted children, a boy and a girl, while maintaining his “marriage” relationship with this other man.

Is this the perverted standard of Morals and “Family life” that you look up to, and regard as a foundation stone and qualification for the making of a Senator ?  Do you really think that Colm O’Gorman would restore the balance by his recognizing your plight ?

Perhaps Christine Buckley would like to give an opinion on the matter.

Last edited by Setanta (2007-09-22 08:34:42)

 #170 2007-05-24 07:29:44
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Transnational Humanism

Religion and Child Abuse

Innaiah Narisetti

Innaiah Narisetti is the chair of the Centre for Inquiry/India. This article is excerpted from a paper that he will present at the Centre for Inquiry’s congress in China this coming October.

Over the years, the abuse of children has received substantial attention worldwide.

The United Nations, through its member organizations such as UNESCO (the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization), has focused on this issue, recognizing the worst forms of such abuse.

These include child labor, in which an estimated 250 million children are engaged in some form due to the practice of slavery, bondage linked to family debts, or serfdom; as well as the forced recruitment and involvement of children in armed conflicts, child pornography and prostitution, and the production and trafficking of illicit drugs.

The International Labor Organization, the United Nations Children’s Fund, and UNESCO hold regular discussions at various levels and organize international conventions.

The UN has adopted a world declaration for the protection of children, the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

THE CONVENTION ON THE RIGHTS OF THE CHILD

The human rights of children and the standards to which all governments must aspire in realizing these rights for all children are most concisely and fully articulated in one international human-rights treaty: the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

The Convention is the most universally accepted human-rights instrument in history.

It has been ratified by every country in the world except two: the United States and Somalia.

It places children at center stage in the quest for the universal application of human rights.

By ratifying this instrument, national governments have committed themselves to protecting and ensuring children’s rights and have agreed to hold themselves accountable for this commitment before the international community.

While it is unfortunate that a powerful country such as the United States has yet to ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child, the UN’s efforts are salutary and place much-needed emphasis on improving the lives of children globally.

THE INFLUENCE OF RELIGION

However, despite all the effort and rhetoric about protecting children and their rights, there is a severe shortcoming in the global campaign to protect children: the influence of religion and its continuing contribution to many forms of child abuse all around the world.

Such abuse begins with the involuntary involvement of children in religious practices from the time they are born.

All religions, through ritual, preaching, and religious texts, seek to bring children into day-to-day religious practice.

This gives holy books and scriptures, as well as those who teach them, an early grip on the developing minds of young people, leaving an indelible impression on them.

In many cases, most notably in the Catholic Church, this forced and prolonged exposure of children to religious institutions has also been a key factor in the physical, mental, and sexual abuse of children by religious leaders.

This early grip is so strong that very few people, once grown, ever get an opportunity to change their minds, despite being exposed to science and rational thinking, or even other religious systems.

Religious beliefs thrive by imposing themselves upon impressionable minds and gaining their blind adherence to certain dogmatic practices.

In some ways, this lays the groundwork for sustained psychological abuse of young children by allowing adults the use of religion as a pretext for various other forms of abuse such as forcing them to fight in wars in the name of religion and ethnicity. During 2004, about 300,000 children served as soldiers in national armies, worldwide.

When it comes to the forced inculcation of religion and the resulting abuses of children in the name of religion, the UN, all of its affiliated organizations, and almost all national governments remain steadfastly silent.

THE UN’s RELUCTANCE

In one form or another, all religions violate the rights of children. Yet a body like the UN, which allows the Vatican to be represented among its member countries, is unaware of “or more likely” unable and unwilling to stand up to the Vatican regarding the religious abuse of children.

There is significant pressure from the Vatican to pull back on or dilute any resolutions that point to religion as a cause of abuse or strife.

Add to this the unwillingness of the UN to confront its member countries, especially those in the Muslim world, which can also exert a lot of pressure when it comes to issues related to the abuse of children by their religious schools (madrassas) where, for example, very young children are forced to memorize six thousand verses of the Quran, a process that involves both mental and physical abuse.

As a result, the UN and its affiliated agencies tend to focus on addressing just the symptoms rather than the root causes of some of the most insidious forms of child abuse.

For example, while everyone speaks out against genital mutilation, UNICEF is unwilling to acknowledge and condemn it as a religious practice.

Instead, it talks about educating communities and spends millions of dollars on medical kits to treat those children who have already been mutilated.

By not forcefully pointing the finger at the real culprit “religious practices” the UN is not only missing a good opportunity to fix the problem at its source but also putting too small a bandage on a very deep wound.

GENDER DISCRIMINATION

Another area in which religions contribute to child abuse is through explicit and implicit gender discrimination that leads to unequal rights and opportunities between boys and girls and contributes to further abuses.

While economic factors are also to blame, the roots of this inequity lie in religious and social mores. How can the UN hope to tackle the problem of child labor or a lack of educational opportunity among the children in 130 developing countries who are not in primary school, the majority of them being girls?

In the Islamic world, some female students are allowed to attend certain madrassas.

However, they are forced to learn in classrooms, or even buildings, separate from their male peers.

There is a global unwillingness to acknowledge that all religions use their educational institutions and programs, be they Sunday schools, madrassas, or Jewish or Hindu temples to indoctrinate children. Sometimes, this is in the guise of conveying good moral values, but, while it may be much more rigid and overt in, say, a madrassa, it is no less influential on young minds in a Christian Sunday school.

Ultimately, all such programs try to instill a belief in the superiority of one religion and inculcate an unquestioning faith in that system.

THE DEBATE MUST BEGIN!

Just as we all stand up against child marriage, because marriage is an institution meant for adults, and just as we do not let children participate in certain civic duties, such as voting, until they reach a certain age, the time has come to debate the participation of children in religious institutions.

While some might see it as a matter better left to parents, the negative influence of religion and its subsequent contribution to child abuse from religious beliefs and practices requires us to ask whether organized religion is an institution that needs limits set on how early it should have access to children.

There is no doubt that this will be a controversial position. However, there is nothing to prevent the UN from organizing a world convention on the issue of the religious abuse of children, a forum where the pros and cons of childhood exposure to religion and its influence on children can be openly debated.

The world body cannot remain silent on this vital issue just because it is a sensitive and difficult subject, even given its member nations and their religious interests.

A convention like this would also be an opportunity for those who might want to argue for the benefits of the influence of religion on children, so the UN should not shy away from debate of the issue.

If such a convention clearly shows that religion contributes to child abuse globally, the UN must then take a clear stand on the issue of the forced involvement of children in religious practices; it must speak up for the rights of children and not the automatic right of parents and societies to pass on religious beliefs, and it must reexamine whether an organization like the Vatican should belong to the UN.

Until this happens, millions of children worldwide will continue to be abused in the name of religion, and the efforts made by the UN will continue to address the symptoms but not the disease.

 171 2007-06-01 15:52:04
Setanta
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Statement 16
I believe that there are two very powerful forces of power which have a substantial influence on societies throughout the World. There is the power of Good, and the power of Evil.

All human beings have a choice to accept either power. I believe that the power of good comes from a loving and compassionate God who is known to me and millions more as Holy God. The God of Evil is a very powerful force which is in opposition to Holy God.

I believe that all good living people are safe in the hands of the good God, but I am very concerned about people who go against the teachings of good religion.
Your writings about Innaigh Narisetti are frightening and anti-Christian.
The choice is yours, and ours too.

Last edited by Setanta (2007-09-22 08:36:29)

 #172 2007-06-07 03:58:50
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Setanta says:

“All human beings have a choice to accept either power”

What homo sapien on this earth in their “precise principled brainpower” would want to recognize the power of evil? It stands to raison d’être. Evilness, from an early age is by organised religion propelled upon same. It brainwashes good ethical minds. It corrupts, it destroys, and it kills. ONE ONLY HAS TO READ ABOUT THE EVIL SHENANIGANS OF THE PAST LIVES OF POPES IN THE VATICAN TO GET AN INKLING OF – EVILNESS.

Setanta says:

“I believe that the power of good comes from a loving and compassionate God who is known to me and millions more as Holy God. The God of Evil is a very powerful force which is in opposition to Holy God”.

I say:

Tell that to the thousands upon thousands of ex-inmates, who – by the judiciary – were wrongfully incarcerated, without their consent in Ireland’s Industrial Schools. In addition, of whom for the most part, never ever experienced the love and compassionate nature of the God that you acknowledge is holy. The industrial school GOD – by a long chalk was to them not a holy one. It was in its place an INIQUITOUS, IMPIOUS, AND BRUTAL, VICIOUS AND VIOLENT ONE WHO STOOD BY EACH DAY AND ALLOWED ITS FOLLOWERS TO DEMEAN/BELITTLE, BEAT, HUMILIATE, PUT DOWN, DEBASE, DISGRACE, DEHUMANISE, TORTURE, DEGRADE, AND BRUISE/BATTER/SEXUALLY ABUSE INNOCENT CHILDREN.

Setanta says:

“I believe that all good living people are safe in the hands of the good God, but I am very concerned about people who go against the teachings of good religion”.

I say:

All good living people are safe in their own hands. Period.

What a whole load of codswallop! CLAP-TRAP, AND SMOOTH TALK. The effects of the teachings of so-called “good religion” has caused Innaigh Narisetti trepidation and is to her/all frightening and anti-Christian. The choice is hers to express and ours too know, pay heed, learn and not anymore to be taken in by its worldwide deceit.

 #173 2007-06-08 06:24:45
Miss Oujee
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

SETANTA

Yes. ‘Senator’ Colm O’Gorman certainly does display signs of truly perverted morals if that be his definition of family morals. Morals of this sort have been creeping its way into the justice system that shall almost certainly produce an anomaly of ‘natural disasters.’

The psychology of all homosexuals deems to have its origin in perversion, though what was once deemed as a capital offence managed to shrug itself off as mental illness and thus established itself in the part of democracy. Along now with the newly legalised ‘Gender Identity Disorder’.

Rather than treat these illnesses with the appropriate remedies one now has the right to have it adopted as a moral within the legal establishment therefore consequencing in the generation of youth regarding this as normality.

P.S. I am extensively researching mental illness in homosexuals that I assert to be a type of demon possession. Or diabolical influence to be polite…

Last edited by Miss Oujee (2007-06-09 12:35:06)

 #174 2007-06-10 07:23:23
Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Setanta:

“Is this the perverted standard of Morals and “Family life” that you look up to, and regard as a foundation stone and qualification for the making of a Senator?”

I say:

To be flawlessly candid I do look up to the “family moral principles” of Colm
O’Gorman. He, (along with his partner) have taken on board parenting responsibilities of two children who were left bereft of a parent. For this, operate, unaccompanied – so he wins my admiration.

A myriad of children from Goldenbridge Industrial School (who were measured by the system as orphans) would have jumped at the prospect of being taken by kind people such as Colm O’Gorman et al.

His “gender” would under no circumstances have come into the equation… Only, suffice to say his goodness, righteousness, integrity and kindness.

You will learn all about homosexuality by reading up on the Bonoboes…

We are all – by the way 98%. Four related to this amazing species. So there you have it.

We are not all that different. ORGANISED religions have a very overly antediluvian world-weary abject miserable/fascist/nazi view of homosexuality and it stinks.

Setanta:

“Do you really think that Colm O’Gorman would restore the balance by his recognising your plight?”

I say:

On an individual level, I feel very let down by the piece of evidence that I was by the 1 in 4 coordinator – uncared for and completely ignored, yes very much so..

It struck/strikes me that his priorities lay with trying to keep in with the Progressive Democrats/Fianna Fail agenda.

He forgot that it was the victims/survivors of institutional abuse – then the clerical abuse card – which gave him political recognition!

There have been people like Mick Waters from UK SOCA who came to visit me on a constant basis; he has done Trojan work for those who were in industrial schools, like Goldenbridge, Artane, Daingean, and Letterfrack.

He has also on behalf of same stood up to the Judiciary/Dept of Education. Christine Buckley/Bernadette Fahy who was with me in Goldenbridge has never come to visit me at all. To them I say – the Department of Education won out – without trouble.

I never had visitors when I was a child growing up in Goldenbridge, so it is nothing new.

I CAN ONLY FIGHT “MY CASE” OUTSIDE DAIL EIREANN.

It would be factually impracticable for me to be outside on behalf of others when I DO NOT HAVE MINUTIAE of any description OF THEIR INDIVIDUAL INSTITUTIONS AND THE ABUSE THAT THEY purportedly SUFFERED.

It would not in my evaluation be too late for him to restore the balance in recognising my plight. Nevertheless, I know there is personally nothing he can give do on a political level, but a lot than he can do on a moral level.

If he reads this comment, I AM SURE HE WILL MAKE UP HIS OWN MIND.

But one thing is for sure, Senator or no Senator — he is no different from you or me at the end of the day.

I wish him every success in his role.

The way things panned out for the PD’s electorate – he is damn lucky to have gotten a seat in the Seanad.

I do sure hope in the foreseeable future Liz O’Donnell will be as lucky in securing a Seanad seat..

To conclude:

I DO NOT DO PERVERSION – SO WILL NOT MAKE A COMMENT ON THAT WORD!

Last edited by Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin (2007-06-10 07:29:10)

 #175 2007-06-10 16:59:52
Setanta
Re: From the CrookedLawyers.com Guestbook {2}

Statement 16
Miss Oujee:
I am glad you understand about the sign of “truly perverted morals”
I remember a set of rules that that covered perversion, and a whole lot more. And there were only ten rules, and they are over two thousand years old, and they are still in force!!!

If homosexuals were to respect these rules of Law and Order as instituted by our Maker, then the World would function normally in the married state, and children would have a Mother and a Father in a secure unit called the Family.

Marie-Therese O’ Loughlin, you state:
“I DO NOT DO PERVERSION – SO WILL NOT MAKE A COMMENT ON THAT WORD!”
Well ! that’s one way of getting out of it !!! Perhaps some day you will write on “perversion”, should you choose to study the subject.

Is there anyone who would like to write a paragraph or two about the meanings of the word “PERVERSION”?

I called in to see you twice so far this year, but on each occasion you were not there! However, I did see your camp on the footpath in front of the Irish Government Buildings.

I admire your resilient, courageous and determined efforts in your long protest in all weathers, against substantial, formidable, elusive and unyielding state officials, who have declined to help you. Is there any chance that you would join a group?

The Civil Servants who work in your areas of interest and complaint know you well. But they will not help you unless you explore other areas which may help them to do something for you. They may well be prepared to leave you there for many many more years.

It has been my bitter experience that Irish state officials and state agencies involved in my tragic case are heartless people who never cared for myself or my Family. I have good reason to believe that the Irish state officials in your case are of the same vile breed.

So my heart goes out to you, and I hope you will be rewarded for all your suffering and horrific treatment by institutionalised, draconian and crooked Ireland.

Last edited by Setanta (2007-09-22 08:39:15)